Bullets and Grenade did little to harm PAD Sondhi

[uncleyap]

The grenade didn't even explode. It showed that the attackers does not not know how to properly use M79, which as an arming distance when range fired is shorter than that, it wont' blast:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M79_grenade_launcher

The arming distance is 30m, so target must be at least 30m away, otherwise no BANG!



http://nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/19/politics/politics_30100758.php

Sondhi case: Suspects to be arrested soon


By THE NATION ON SUNDAY
Published on April 19, 2009




Police investigators are likely to arrest suspects in the shooting of media magnate Sondhi Limthongkul within a week as many of them have been identified, sources said yesterday.


<!-- Google Dtail Ads --> <!-- START GOOGLE ADS--> <!-- Google AFC--> <script language="JavaScript"> <!-- var google_adnum = 0; /* only insert this line for your first ad unit */ function google_ad_request_done(google_ads) { var s = ''; var i; /* * Verify that there are actually ads to display. */ if (google_ads.length == 0) { return; } if (google_ads[0].type == "image") { s += '' + ' '; } else if (google_ads[0].type=="text") { s += 'Ads by Google
'; if (google_ads.length == 1) { /* * Partners should adjust text sizes * so ads occupy the majority of ad space. */ s += '' + google_ads.line1 + '
' + '' + // text google_ads.line2 + ' ' + google_ads.line3 + '
' + '<a href="' + google_ads.url + '" ' + // url 'onmouseout="window.status=\'\'" ' + 'onmouseover="window.status=\'\';return true;" ' + google_ads.visible_url + '\'" ' + 'style="text-decoration:none">' + google_ads.visible_url + '

'; } if (google_ads[0].bidtype == "CPC") { /* insert this snippet for each ad call */ google_adnum = google_adnum + google_ads.length; } } } document.write(s); return; } google_ad_client = 'pub-1044823792492543'; // This is your client_id google_ad_channel = '4768931034'; //You may contact google to create more channel ids to track various site's performance. google_ad_output = 'js'; google_max_num_ads = '3'; google_ad_type = 'image,text,html'; google_image_size = '336x280'; google_feedback = 'on'; google_encoding = 'UTF-8'; google_language = 'en'; google_adtest = "off"; /*google_skip = google_adnum; insert this snippet for each ad call */ // --> </script> <script language="JavaScript" src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js"> </script><script src="http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/test_domain.js"></script><script>window.google_render_ad();</script><script language="JavaScript1.1" src="http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/ads?client=ca-pub-1044823792492543&dt=1240123649318&hl=en&oe=UTF-8&lmt=1240123648&num_ads=3&output=js&adtest=off&correlator=1240123649318&channel=4768931034&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnationmultimedia.com%2F2009%2F04%2F19%2Fpolitics%2Fpolitics_30100758.php&ad_type=image,text,html&image_size=336x280&ea=0&feedback_link=on&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fnationmultimedia.com%2F&frm=0&ga_vid=1158824707.1240123481&ga_sid=1240123481&ga_hid=1636077524&ga_fc=true&flash=10.0.22&u_h=1920&u_w=1080&u_ah=1920&u_aw=1080&u_cd=24&u_tz=480&u_his=1&u_java=true&u_nplug=6&u_nmime=62&dtd=13"></script>


<!-- END GOOGLE ADS --> <!-- Google Dtail Ads --> The sources said that Sondhi himself best knew who had mounted the attempt on his life.

Three teams of assassins on motorcycles sprayed a hail of bullets at Sondhi, his driver and his secretary, from the front, the back and the side of the vehicle, according to the sources. The gunmen were not in a pickup truck as earlier suspected.


The man who drove the pickup truck spotted by security camera following Sondhi's vehicle moments before the shooting yesterday came to police and denied involvement. The motorist said that he had been driving behind Sondhi's vehicle when he heard gunshots, which prompted him to turn behind a bus nearby for cover.


Sondhi's guards, following him in another vehicle, also saw the suspects and fired on them, forcing them to speed away before they could complete their mission, they said.


"Sondhi knows best who tried to kill him," said a source, "but he can't say anything much now because he doesn't trust the police or the investigators."


Deputy national police chief General Jongrak Juthanond yesterday chaired a meeting of investigators at Chana Songkhram police station to discuss the probe into the shooting.


At 5.30 am on Friday, Sondhi's van was attacked by a team of gunmen as he was on the way to his office for a six-o'clock ASTV talk show.

The gunmen used a range of weapons to fire several dozen bullets at Sondhi in front of Wat Iamworanuj, in Bangkok's Bang Khumphrom area.



Sondhi escaped because he was sitting in the back seat and his guards, in another vehicle behind, fired at the gunmen, who lost their nerve and sped from the scene.


After five hours of surgery, bullet fragments were removed from Sondhi's skull. While Sondhi's secretary accompanying him was unhurt, his driver remains in critical condition, needing a third operation.
According to Sondhi's media firm Manager, he is furious with his attackers.


Sondhi's condition improved yesterday, and he was able to talk, walk and eat, said his doctor Theerapong Charoenvit, director of Chulalongkorn Hospital.


The People's Alliance for Demo-cracy leader will be kept under close medical observation for one week, however. Theerapong said Sondhi, who is on the eighth floor of the hospital, had asked him to tell the media he was "fine and safe".


His driver, Adul Daengpradab, was in a more serious situation with a four-cubic-centimetre swelling at the back of his brain and will have to have another brain operation, his doctor said yesterday.


Meanwhile, Jintanat Limthongkol, Sondhi's son and senior executive of the ASTV-Manager media empire, said yesterday Sondhi was "vengeful" but not sure yet who was behind the assassination attempt. Jintanat urged the PAD to exercise caution and not fall into the trap of the enemy.


Democrat Party spokesperson Buranaj Smutharaks yesterday urged the authorities to quickly arrest those behind the attack as the issue could complicate the political situation and lead to confrontation. He warned against believing rumours.


Amongst the many well-wishers who visited the hospital yesterday were Chuan Leekpai's son Surabot, who said he and his mother had come on behalf of his father.

 

[uncleyap]

Heavens protecting the good men. 天佑忠良，善有善报，大难不死。

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/read.php?newsid=30100727&keyword=M79

Sondhi survives assassins' bullets


By The Nation
Published on April 18, 2009





PAD founder undergoes five-hour operation Speculation shooters possibly from military



<!-- END GOOGLE ADS --> <!-- Google Dtail Ads --> Sondhi Limthongkul, founder of ASTV-Manager Daily, yesterday survived an assassination attempt after two gunmen in a pickup sprayed his car with bullets.

The incident, which injured Sondhi and two others, took place amid the emergency rule that has been imposed on the greater Bangkok area since Sunday.


The assassination bid further complicates the political conflict involving pro- and anti-Thaksin Shinawatra camps.


Sondhi, a core leader of the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy, underwent a two-hour operation in Vajira Hospital to repair a skull fracture and remove a blood clot in his brain before being transferred to Chulalongkorn Hospital.


Adul Daengpradab, Sondhi's driver, regained consciousness but remained under close medical supervision after undergoing a five-hour operation in Mission Hospital for injuries to his brain, chest and right arm.


Wayuphak Mangkhalasin, an aide to Sondhi, sustained minor injuries and cuts and also received treatment at Mission Hospital.


Various news reports indicated a fourth passenger was in Sondhi's car, a woman said to be his secretary, but no independent confirmation of this account was immediately available.


Metropolitan police chief Lt-General Worapong Chewpreecha theorised the attempt on Sondhi's life could be either politically or personally motivated. He said he could not yet determine whether the two gunmen were military.


"They could be civilians with intensive firearms training," he added.

The shooting took place at around 5.40am while Sondhi's vehicle - a luxury Toyota van - was travelling on Samsen Road near the Bang Khun Phrom intersection. A golden-bronze Isuzu pickup that was following abruptly drove past the van on the left, and two men in the pickup's bed sprayed Sondhi's car with automatic rifle fire for around five minutes before the truck sped off. There were no reports as to whether the gunmen got out of the pickup to fire their weapons.


Apart from 84 spent cartridges from three types of automatic rifles found at the scene, police also found a dud M79 grenade on Bus No 30, which was travelling in the reverse lane. No police theory as to whether that was meant to hit Sondhi's car or fired at the bus to create a diversion was immediately available.

Initial crime-scene reports said the M79 failed to explode because the firing range was too close. Found at the scene were 64 cartridges fired from an AK-47, 17 from an HK33 and three from an M16.

Four surveillance cameras at the scene, operated by traffic police, had been out of order since 1.30pm on Thursday, but two others operated by the city administration captured images of the two vehicles heading towards the scene of the incident, with the pickup trailing Sondhi's vehicle.


Sondhi was on his way to his ASTV-Manager Daily office on Phra Arthit Road in nearby Bang Lamphu area to record a live "Good Morning, Thailand" television programme and audio broadcast.

Dr Chaiwan Jaroenchokethawee, a senior official at Vajira Hospital, said Sondhi should fully recover within five days. He said that small bullet fragments had fractured Sondhi's skull, resulting in minor injuries and bleeding in his brain.

Sondhi, Adul and Wayuphak have all been transferred to Chulalongkorn Hospital.

 

[Tiu Kwang Yew]

mr yap,

but the heaven in sinkapoor got no eyes you know.

they protect the dirty guys holding power.

 

[uncleyap]

mr yap,

but the heaven in sinkapoor got no eyes you know.

they protect the dirty guys holding power.

:-)



Too many greedy selfish cowards in Singapore therefore heaven let them have the sufferings they deserved. Singaporeans must learn how to pay their prices to make things right, then they deserve the heavenly favors to be granted. Singaporeans mostly want short-cut, easy-way-out, enjoy myopic short term gains, unwilling to pay price for the RIGHTEOUS causes... 要好命； 要享受；贪生怕死；贪财没脑；自私自利；SELFISH. Some people every day think the heavens owes them good luck and 4D / ToTo numbers, never contribute much and fat-hope to gain lots and lots....

Where got so Ho Kang one? 好空头？想得太美了！

Surely the heavens also got no eyes to see these people.

:p

Thais already did. And I am proud of my Thai friends. To be fair regardless Red or Yellow shirts they deserve respects.

One day soon in Singapore we will settle with famiLEE LEEgime, and for those who paid price there should be a memorial monument to remember them. Regardless weather they fought for or against famiLEE LEEgime, they had paid for Rep Of Singapore.

 

[Angelo]

Good One !!!

 

[uncleyap]

Good One !!!

Cheers!

 

[Char_Azn]

The grenade didn't even explode. It showed that the attackers does not not know how to properly use M79, which as an arming distance when range fired is shorter than that, it wont' blast:

Why are U supporting someone who held the country ransom by taking over the airport, And who is directly/indirectly responsible for overthrowing 2 LEGITIMATE AND DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT. And not forgetting that joker only went on a personal crusade against Thaksin AFTER the 2 fell out with each other due to business disagreement.

My question for Mr Yap is, are U oppose to Democracy? Do U agree with having only a bunch of elites ruling the masses? Or are U just plain stupid and love to support any and every freaking idiot who oppose the government? Do U even know what democracy means?

 

[Char_Azn]

:-)



Too many greedy selfish cowards in Singapore therefore heaven let them have the sufferings they deserved. Singaporeans must learn how to pay their prices to make things right, then they deserve the heavenly favors to be granted. Singaporeans mostly want short-cut, easy-way-out, enjoy myopic short term gains, unwilling to pay price for the RIGHTEOUS causes... 要好命； 要享受；贪生怕死；贪财没脑；自私自利；SELFISH. Some people every day think the heavens owes them good luck and 4D / ToTo numbers, never contribute much and fat-hope to gain lots and lots....

Where got so Ho Kang one? 好空头？想得太美了！

Surely the heavens also got no eyes to see these people.

:p

Thais already did. And I am proud of my Thai friends. To be fair regardless Red or Yellow shirts they deserve respects.

One day soon in Singapore we will settle with famiLEE LEEgime, and for those who paid price there should be a memorial monument to remember them. Regardless weather they fought for or against famiLEE LEEgime, they had paid for Rep Of Singapore.

Does it mean that instead of letting the pple choose their own government, we should allow a bunch of elites to rule for us without allowing the rest of the population to select their leaders coz that's exactly what is happening to Thailand right now. Do U even know what the heck is going on in that country? The TRUE pple's protest was the one that was stage last week. They mobilized more pple and had more support however, they did not have the support of the elites and neither did the army support them.The only reason why the previous protest was successful was because the army supported it and did nothing when the then PM declared a state of emergency. This time round tanks were sent in the moment the elitist government declared a state of emergency.

My question as in my previous post is, do you support democratically elected government, sworn in by the popular vote? Or do U support government that was never fairly elected and was put in power by elites. Seems like U prefer a elites a royal family ruling over us

 

[uncleyap]

Why are U supporting someone who held the country ransom by taking over the airport, And who is directly/indirectly responsible for overthrowing 2 LEGITIMATE AND DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT. And not forgetting that joker only went on a personal crusade against Thaksin AFTER the 2 fell out with each other due to business disagreement.

My question for Mr Yap is, are U oppose to Democracy? Do U agree with having only a bunch of elites ruling the masses? Or are U just plain stupid and love to support any and every freaking idiot who oppose the government? Do U even know what democracy means?

Democracy & Elections are so vulnerable system always subjected all sorts of abuses and exploitations, I stress that they should NOT be applicable as blinkers and strict standards to be blindly followed.

Democracy & Elections are NOT THE ONLY CONSIDERATIONS, not only that, they are NOT TO BE the 1st CONSIDERATION for most cases.

Examples such as famiLEE LEEgime & Thug-Sin are must suitable to illustrate why Democracy & Elections are NOT Always Right, and MUST not always be Blindly followed, because by doing that we would had enforced the bad result of bastards exploiting and abusing the weaknesses in these system and underminding the original spirits and purposes of Democracy & Elections.

In such cases I fully support the removals of these regimes, when democratic polling is unviable / unsuccessful in serving these needs, any other means should be carried out, such as examples of removal of Thug-Sin; Samak & Somchai.

I stress the importace of not falling into the tunnel-vision of Democracy & Elections especially just before the removal of famiLEE LEEgime. I inisist that what will be replacing famiLEE LEEgime must not be blindly and silly implementation of such tunnel-visioned Democracy.

Similarly noble idologies like Human Rights should not be blindly followed, they can be respected as a reference only. They should not be imposed as strict basis at all. Especially when we come to penalizing corruption and preventing corruptions, they can become rediculous bastacles and bogging all the necessary efficiencies.

I put it clear up front and before hand, that I will NOT accept the outcome and post-LEEgime changes if they are foolishly and naive idealistic implementations of Democracy & Human Rights. I vow to fight that down just like I am fighting against famiLEE LEEgime.

Only a practical and reasonably balanced system is acceptable as replacement of famiLEE LEEgime. An important check will be not blindly following the west and be led by our noses by western powers.

 

[uncleyap]

Does it mean that instead of letting the pple choose their own government, we should allow a bunch of elites to rule for us without allowing the rest of the population to select their leaders coz that's exactly what is happening to Thailand right now. Do U even know what the heck is going on in that country? The TRUE pple's protest was the one that was stage last week. They mobilized more pple and had more support however, they did not have the support of the elites and neither did the army support them.The only reason why the previous protest was successful was because the army supported it and did nothing when the then PM declared a state of emergency. This time round tanks were sent in the moment the elitist government declared a state of emergency.

My question as in my previous post is, do you support democratically elected government, sworn in by the popular vote? Or do U support government that was never fairly elected and was put in power by elites. Seems like U prefer a elites a royal family ruling over us

It will be too wide & idealistic to say "choose their govt", because in too many cases VOTE BY FEAR & VOTE BY GREED are also considered as choices. Further there is VOTE BY FAITH, which is a part of people's political freedom. Then there VOTE BY ETHNIC, which is racial politics. (Tie this back to famiLEE's says about SG's minorty race PM)

Political fights MUST BE PART OF ANY HEALTHY COUNTRY. It is ENTIRELY WRONG & UNACCEPTABLE to think that a country must be only full of economical and developmental activities only.

Only Childish Naive Greedy & Coward people thinks like that.

There are aspects undesirable in current state of Thailand, but not all of it are unnecessary, some are just prices that people need to pay, most of it are just temporary.

Don't blindly look at the status of a govt with respect of being Legitimately Elected. For one, the current famiLEE LEEgime is not taken as Legitimate by myself because GE2006 involved foul vote buying via Progress Package, and the result of that GE should not be honored at all. I wrote to Prata & CJ Chan just after the GE asking them both not to conduct oath ceramony to swear in the current cabinet & MPs, pending the election court to hear the GE2006 corruption of vote buying. It was my idea that the LEEgime to be taken to court under Parliamentary Election Act Section 60 & 90

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_vers...218&segid=1175481667-000822#1175481668-003348

Saddam Hussien claimed that he had 100% vote in GE. Do you honor his election? Bush conducted so called Democratic Election in Iraq after Saddam do you think the so called Elected Govt is legitimate or had done a better job than Saddam in peace & harmony?

Is the present condition of Iraq worst than Thailand which you are complaining?

Do you know that Monachy rulers of Bhutan implemented elections and democracy and had been very poorly received as well as stirred up unnecessary & very unusual conflicts and tension in this normally very peaceful country?

 

[uncleyap]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0430/p09s01-coop.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0430/p09s01-coop.html?page=2

http://phronesisaical.blogspot.com/2008/03/royal-democracy-in-bhutan.html

<cite>http://www.apfanews.com/commentary/royal-democracy-in-bhutan-steps-ahead-<wbr>against-the-current/ </cite>

 

[Char_Azn]

It will be too wide & idealistic to say "choose their govt", because in too many cases VOTE BY FEAR & VOTE BY GREED are also considered as choices. Further there is VOTE BY FAITH, which is a part of people's political freedom. Then there VOTE BY ETHNIC, which is racial politics. (Tie this back to famiLEE's says about SG's minorty race PM)

Political fights MUST BE PART OF ANY HEALTHY COUNTRY. It is ENTIRELY WRONG & UNACCEPTABLE to think that a country must be only full of economical and developmental activities only.

Only Childish Naive Greedy & Coward people thinks like that.

There are aspects undesirable in current state of Thailand, but not all of it are unnecessary, some are just prices that people need to pay, most of it are just temporary.

Don't blindly look at the status of a govt with respect of being Legitimately Elected. For one, the current famiLEE LEEgime is not taken as Legitimate by myself because GE2006 involved foul vote buying via Progress Package, and the result of that GE should not be honored at all. I wrote to Prata & CJ Chan just after the GE asking them both not to conduct oath ceramony to swear in the current cabinet & MPs, pending the election court to hear the GE2006 corruption of vote buying. It was my idea that the LEEgime to be taken to court under Parliamentary Election Act Section 60 & 90

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_vers...218&segid=1175481667-000822#1175481668-003348

Saddam Hussien claimed that he had 100% vote in GE. Do you honor his election? Bush conducted so called Democratic Election in Iraq after Saddam do you think the so called Elected Govt is legitimate or had done a better job than Saddam in peace & harmony?

Is the present condition of Iraq worst than Thailand which you are complaining?

Do you know that Monachy rulers of Bhutan implemented elections and democracy and had been very poorly received as well as stirred up unnecessary & very unusual conflicts and tension in this normally very peaceful country?

U can claim that during Saddam's regime the vote was totally rig. however that wasnt the case for Thailand. Thaksin was voted in with the popular vote(without resorting to fear tactics and elimination of his opposition like you so claim). In fact Thaksin is no longer around but the the current government knows that they cannot win in an election if they call for one right now. There were times when the then ruling party(the supposed puppet government of Thaksin) offered to call for elections but the opposition refused.

I think the naive one here is you. In a perfect world, we would care just as much about human rights and the enviroment as much as we care about the economy. In a perfect world, communism would work and everyone would be happy. Too bad this world is anything but perfect.

I'm not sure about you, but I travel pretty extensively(especially within Asia) due to work commitments. I've visited places like India and Thailand quite often. Have you ever seen pple living on the streets, quite literally, the entire family pitching tents by the side of a busy road and staying there? Have you ever gone without food for days on end? Would you consider moving your entire family into the cemetery? No? Well this are very real problems happening in countries all around us. They have no choice but to look at money and the economy first. Either that or they stave to death. Its easy for you to talk about being greedy and cowardly, its a totally different thing when you have no food to put on your table.

Lets not talk about the poorer countries, lets talk about the richer, more "enlightened" ones. Countries with good record of having free elections and totally democratic political enviroment. Countries like South Korea. Lee Myung-bak was elected mainly due to the fact that pple see him as someone who can help push up the economy(http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/259078.html). How about Australia? The last election in 07, all they could talk about was how to combat inflation.

The truth is we all like to talk about things like caring about the environment, human rights etc. But when you cannot even put food on the table that is the most serious issue you can and will think about. Like I said earlier, you can talk about your ideals all you want but Thailand is in a very different situation as it is in SG. We do not have too much problem with a roof over our heads and food on our table, however Thailand is in a very different situation.

I agree with the fact that here in SG, we can and should talk about the extra stuff. But for someone who cant even put food on the table, basic survival is more important. Please get your facts right and analyse the current situation IN THAT PARTICULAR COUNTRY before making stupid comments and not just link everything back to Lee and hi family and bore us with your angry rhetoric.

 

[Char_Azn]

Democracy & Elections are so vulnerable system always subjected all sorts of abuses and exploitations, I stress that they should NOT be applicable as blinkers and strict standards to be blindly followed.

Democracy & Elections are NOT THE ONLY CONSIDERATIONS, not only that, they are NOT TO BE the 1st CONSIDERATION for most cases.

Examples such as famiLEE LEEgime & Thug-Sin are must suitable to illustrate why Democracy & Elections are NOT Always Right, and MUST not always be Blindly followed, because by doing that we would had enforced the bad result of bastards exploiting and abusing the weaknesses in these system and underminding the original spirits and purposes of Democracy & Elections.

In such cases I fully support the removals of these regimes, when democratic polling is unviable / unsuccessful in serving these needs, any other means should be carried out, such as examples of removal of Thug-Sin; Samak & Somchai.

I stress the importace of not falling into the tunnel-vision of Democracy & Elections especially just before the removal of famiLEE LEEgime. I inisist that what will be replacing famiLEE LEEgime must not be blindly and silly implementation of such tunnel-visioned Democracy.

Similarly noble idologies like Human Rights should not be blindly followed, they can be respected as a reference only. They should not be imposed as strict basis at all. Especially when we come to penalizing corruption and preventing corruptions, they can become rediculous bastacles and bogging all the necessary efficiencies.

I put it clear up front and before hand, that I will NOT accept the outcome and post-LEEgime changes if they are foolishly and naive idealistic implementations of Democracy & Human Rights. I vow to fight that down just like I am fighting against famiLEE LEEgime.

Only a practical and reasonably balanced system is acceptable as replacement of famiLEE LEEgime. An important check will be not blindly following the west and be led by our noses by western powers.

Wow I never expect someone who had experience running for office to say something this stupid or politically incorrect. So what U mean to say is just because U or a few self proclaimed enlightened ones or the elites of the society(as in the case in Thailand) does not agree with the present goivernment, you should be given the power to topple them as and when you like? If that was the case, why don't we just limit voting to the educated.

How does this sounds? Only Diploma holders and above earning at least 3K a month should be allowed to vote. The rest of the population should have no say in the elections becuase they are either too stupid or too afraid to vote for the other guy. Sounds absurd? Well that's precisely what you were saying and also what's happening in Thailand

 

[uncleyap]

U can claim that during Saddam's regime the vote was totally rig. however that wasnt the case for Thailand. Thaksin was voted in with the popular vote(without resorting to fear tactics and elimination of his opposition like you so claim). In fact Thaksin is no longer around but the the current government knows that they cannot win in an election if they call for one right now. There were times when the then ruling party(the supposed puppet government of Thaksin) offered to call for elections but the opposition refused.

I think the naive one here is you. In a perfect world, we would care just as much about human rights and the enviroment as much as we care about the economy. In a perfect world, communism would work and everyone would be happy. Too bad this world is anything but perfect.

I'm not sure about you, but I travel pretty extensively(especially within Asia) due to work commitments. I've visited places like India and Thailand quite often. Have you ever seen pple living on the streets, quite literally, the entire family pitching tents by the side of a busy road and staying there? Have you ever gone without food for days on end? Would you consider moving your entire family into the cemetery? No? Well this are very real problems happening in countries all around us. They have no choice but to look at money and the economy first. Either that or they stave to death. Its easy for you to talk about being greedy and cowardly, its a totally different thing when you have no food to put on your table.

Lets not talk about the poorer countries, lets talk about the richer, more "enlightened" ones. Countries with good record of having free elections and totally democratic political enviroment. Countries like South Korea. Lee Myung-bak was elected mainly due to the fact that pple see him as someone who can help push up the economy(http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/259078.html). How about Australia? The last election in 07, all they could talk about was how to combat inflation.

The truth is we all like to talk about things like caring about the environment, human rights etc. But when you cannot even put food on the table that is the most serious issue you can and will think about. Like I said earlier, you can talk about your ideals all you want but Thailand is in a very different situation as it is in SG. We do not have too much problem with a roof over our heads and food on our table, however Thailand is in a very different situation.

I agree with the fact that here in SG, we can and should talk about the extra stuff. But for someone who cant even put food on the table, basic survival is more important. Please get your facts right and analyse the current situation IN THAT PARTICULAR COUNTRY before making stupid comments and not just link everything back to Lee and hi family and bore us with your angry rhetoric.

Thug-Sin & his Thai-Rak-Thai gang had been trial by court and convicted and disqualified for electoral frauds. Saddam never.

When I walked the streets in India dozen of children beggars followed me and I had to find ways to stop them from following me non-stop. When I go to Thailand their children commonly work as male & female prostitutes. This is world famous fact.

When their bodies and life and dignity can be so widely exploited to this extend, what do you think about their VOTES?

Got to be very naive to trust any sort of poll result or uphold or stand by the result of any election under such situation. Very very naive.

In SG it is not so obvious but not hard to believe that a fraction of people most of middle age and above cast their vote by fear. Peasants who rush to offer prays to Monkey God Tree seeking 4D numbers and protections, will wisely uphold justice; vote righteously; with matured political consideration and for the good of Rep of Singapore?

I can tell you that honor degree holders are among there.

Democracy is an idea of the noble people who assumed (be serously doubtful) that majority people are wise and noble.

That is an ideal assumption that bad people (assumed to be tiny minority) in power can be removed by election by the wise and righteous majority.

In most realities of countires, you said you travel alot in Aisia. Do you see a big majority capable of voting in the ideal way assumed by the noble and novel idealists of Democracy?

In reality and in practicality, many undesirable ingrediants of life is unavoidable. Such as conflicts and contentions. Inclusive of political aspects. Not all can be expected to be resolved peacefully by talks and votes. As long as these are kept balanced over long term, between peaceful cooperative phase and contentional phase, the society is considered as OK.

Only in PAp's hoax exist the naive idea of constant and permanant postitive economic development and clean orderly society. In reality they fell back to 1960s when food hygene for public sales were a problem, that people will die of mass food poisoning.

Influnce by PAp's hoaxs and falsehood Singaporeans takes negative views of political contentions and mass political movements. Reflecting impractical childish and naive expectations of reality.

 

[uncleyap]

Wow I never expect someone who had experience running for office to say something this stupid or politically incorrect. So what U mean to say is just because U or a few self proclaimed enlightened ones or the elites of the society(as in the case in Thailand) does not agree with the present goivernment, you should be given the power to topple them as and when you like? If that was the case, why don't we just limit voting to the educated.

How does this sounds? Only Diploma holders and above earning at least 3K a month should be allowed to vote. The rest of the population should have no say in the elections becuase they are either too stupid or too afraid to vote for the other guy. Sounds absurd? Well that's precisely what you were saying and also what's happening in Thailand

There are very wide based support and huge masses behind all the meaningful movements. They have their leaders.

If you checked Thailand and Taiwan, the Red Shirt Army of Shih Ming Teh 施明德 are comparable movements.

It is only a very limited view and scope to just look for solution within the limitations of polls and election of boundary of Democracy. It is tunnel vision or vision from the bottom of a well. Further, the expectation of everything must be peaceful and orderly, and keeping all the prices to be alway below a certain level is wrong and impractical. When you come to a time that these limits have to be exceeded, the leaders have to decide to be a greater man, a revolutionist or warrior if need be.

As long as you can be very sure of positive long term results that can justify the short term prices paid. The change and differences made is still constructive and positive. Don't be afraid to pay the necessary prices, take measures that ENSURE the desired results are secured and achieved, and well justified. Reformist leadership calls for this kind of ability.

 

[Char_Azn]

Democracy is an idea of the noble people who assumed (be serously doubtful) that majority people are wise and noble.

Point taken. This is all I need. So U think that a bunch of elites who thinks they know better should rule the majority even if the majority thinks otherwise and that anyone who disagrees are stupid. Point taken. all I need to know from you.

And please stop calling the protesters cowards. Unlike the previous protest by Sondhi, this time round, the protestors are going against the elites, the royalties, the army and the police. If anything they are way braver then the previous protestors in fighting for what they believe in. Unlike the previous administration where nothing was done by either the police or military when a state of emergency was called. This time round military moved in immediately once Ahbisit called for a state of emergency. So please dont even begin to compare this pple with the protest last year

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Abhisit declares emergency in Bangkok over Red Shirts



I was transfixed by the unfolding developments in Bangkok and Pattaya over the weekend. Early in the week, some 100,000 Red Shirts appeared at various rallies in Bangkok, an astounding number.

On Thursday, 9 April 2009, a portion of them besieged the Victory Monument roundabout, causing gridlock and utter chaos in the capital city's public transport system.



Then on Friday, they marched on the Royal Cliff Resort in Pattaya where Asean leaders were scheduled to meet their counterparts from China, Japan, Australia, etc. It was relatively peaceful, and the rally dispersed after they managed to hand a letter over to the Asean leaders protesting the legitimacy of the Abhisit government.

On Saturday, a new "colour" made its appearance -- dark blue shirts. They confronted the Red Shirts, and a short but furious fight broke out between the two sides. The Red Shirts, being far more numerous, pushed forward, and eventually entered one of the conference buildings in victory.

The summit was cancelled and the gathered leaders had to be evacuated by helicopter to U-Tapao air base from where they flew home. Abhisit himself was the first of the heads of government to flee.

You may ask: Where were the security forces? What were the police doing? Wasn't the army guarding the place?

And while you're at it: Who are the Blue Shirts?

These questions point to a far more complicated situation than most Singaporeans understand. It is not a simple two-sided conflict of government versus anti-government. On the so-called "government" side, there are multiple forces who can and do act independently of each other, sometimes at cross-purposes. The whole contest is also being played out against a background of repeated uprisings in modern Thai history, the memory of which is shaping both sides' tactics.

On Sunday, a state of emergency was declared over Bangkok and the surrounding provinces. Exactly what the government hoped to achieve with that is not yet clear, but the risk of blood being spilled has risen. I now estimate it at over 50 percent.

* * * * *


Last month, I was speaking to a non-Thai friend who had been living in Bangkok for many years. I asked him: "I know the army does not take orders from Abhisit; there are forces bigger than the Prime Minister, forces he does not control. Who is the central figure behind them?"

I knew it would be hard for him to give a clear-cut answer, because there are many shadowy figures, but his simplified answer illustrated very well the complexity of the situation. He said, "The queen."

This diagram below will give you an idea of the forces at play.



On the left side, we know that the Red Shirts take inspiration from deposed prime minister Thaksin. Is he the one giving orders? I'm beginning to doubt it. I think the Red Shirt movement is now bigger than Thaksin, and I don't think he can fully control it anymore. The movement is a boiling over of the rural and lower classes' long-suppressed frustration at being exploited by the rich and the powerful.

It is couched as a demand for democracy because they know that they have the numbers to win any free election.

On the right side, the first thing you'd notice is that Abhisit is almost naked in that he has no "ground forces" of his own. He is in office by courtesy of the bigger forces on that side of the contest, and he is dispensable. Anytime they don't need him as figleaf, he goes.

The palace and the generals are the ones calling the shots. Their ground forces are the yellow shirts and, in theory, the army. We have not yet seen the army in action, so we don't quite know, in reality, where the army junior officers' and rank and file's loyalties lie. But because the generals are on that side, for now we assume the army is on that side too.

The problem both sides face is that if there is any pattern to be gleaned from previous uprisings, it is this: The side that fires the first shots and causes the first fatalities is the loser. Your moral high ground is immediately forfeited and there is no way Thai society can fully support you.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Thus, so far in this contest, both sides have tried their best to avoid lethal violence. The police, and even soldiers supporting them, in manning protective cordons have generally been armed with no more than batons.

The Red Shirts in turn have shown remarkable discipline, pushing forward steadily but not running amok, and pulling back when ordered.

What has been interesting so far is that many observers have come to the conclusion that the rank and file of the police forces have their sympathies with the Red Shirts. This is hardly surprising. They come from the same social class as the poor and downtrodden. This explains why so often, when the Red Shirts push forward, the police just give way. It may also explain why so many Red Shirt leaders arrested by the police have "escaped".

Take the guy who broke the rear windshield of Abhisit's car earlier this week. This happened when, prior to the Asean summit meeting, Abhisit held a cabinet meeting in Pattaya and found himself nearly lynched by a group of Red Shirts, on his way out of the seaside town. The guy who broke the windshield surrendered himself to the police for that act, but later, when he asked for a smoke break, they let him out, and he just walked away.

What about the Blue Shirts? They're the classic agents provocateurs. It is now widely believed that they were soldiers disguised as anti-Red demonstrators. Eyewitness accounts suggest that they were the ones who started the melee on Saturday morning at the Royal Cliff Resort by throwing objects at the Red Shirts.




Look at the Blue Shirts' haircuts


Quite likely, Abhisit did not even know that a bunch of Blue Shirts was being organised, for it would have risked exactly what happened later, infuriating the Red Shirts so much that fighting would break out, threatening the entire summit and causing him to lose face. More likely, other chieftains came up with the idea behind the prime minister's back, perhaps because saw an opportunity to force a showdown with the Red Shirts.

And now that showdown may be happening, with the state of emergency declared over Bangkok. How will the junior officers and solders respond? This is the question we have to watch out for.

First indications are not good. The Red Shirts managed to seize three armoured personnel carriers on Rama 1 Road, just in front of the chi-chi Siam Paragon Shopping Centre. How did the soldiers give up their vehicles so easily? Are they demoralised? Or are their secret sympathies with the Red side too?



Below is a Youtube video from another part of Bangkok. Not only Red Shirts, but ordinary bystanders are getting heated the moment they spot an army personnel carrier. When surrounded and nearly overwhelmed by people, the army vehicle lurches back and forth, destroying a motorbike (and latter it sounded like it crashed into a car or two), which only leaves more people incensed. Imagine if an accident happened and someone was killed...





Thailand's army is mostly made up of conscripts. Either they wouldn't know how to react calmly and with discipline to protest situations or their obedience to their commanders could be shakey. However, there are crack units who will probably obey orders to shoot if given.

And let's not forget the Yellow Shirts whom we haven't seen in action so far this year. What role is being thought up for them in the coming days or weeks? And how much of all this does Abhisit control? Or even know about?

* * * * *


If the rule is that whoever shoots first cannot win, then how will the generals ever prevail when two-thirds of the country are more or less on the side of Thaksin and the Red Shirts?

Ah, but that rule was only true when the king was active enough to intervene the moment the first shots were fired. Now he is ailing. Suppose he doesn't intervene this time, will the first shots be followed by more shots? And then, some more?

I am getting very concerned with this fast deteriorating situation.

© Yawning Bread

 

[taksinloong]

Red Shirts are thugs, not all of them but the active ingredients of them are thugs, they set fire on buses other vehicles and tyres to make roadblocks.

They carry firearms and gun-fight with Bangkok residents fatally, not just matas.

The yellow shirts are not so fucked up.

They disarmed matas but they safe kept the arms in very well disciplined way. Their leader Charmlong a profound military general.