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Big property bubble forming in China, warns leading developer

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Big property bubble forming in China, warns leading developer

Financial Times UK
By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bcf0ced2-d4ab-11de-a935-00144feabdc0.html
Published: November 19 2009 02:00 | Last updated:
November 19 2009 02:00

A large bubble is forming in China's property market as a result of Beijing's credit-driven stimulus programme, one of the country's most prominent real estate developers warned.

Zhang Xin, chief executive of Soho China, one of the country's most successful privately-owned property developers, told the Financial Times the asset bubble was leading to rampant wasteful investment in the sector, undermining the country's long-term growth prospects.

"Real estate prices should only go up because people want to actually use the space, but at the moment we can see more and more empty buildings across the whole country and in every real estate segment," Ms Zhang said. "The rising prices are a direct result of so much money coming from the banks and the Chinese banks should be very worried."

Ms Zhang's assessment was echoed by Fan Gang, a member of the central bank's monetary policy committee, who warned yesterday that real estate in cities such as Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen was expensive and there was a growing risk of asset price bubbles.

China is now on the same bubble path as Japan post-1987 crash

This article by Peter Tasker, a well-regarded financial analyst in Asia, comes via the Financial Times (hat tip Marshall). He sees an enormous bubble forming in China – and parallels to Japan circa 1987:

To anyone who has lived through the rise and fall of the Japanese bubble economy, it should set off alarm bells.

Remember that it was in the years following the 1987 "Black Monday" crash that Japanese assets went from being expensive to absurdly overvalued and the Nikkei’s dizzy rise to 39,000 forced the bears to throw in the towel…

But what you saw was decidedly not what you got. The crisis, far from leaving Japan unscathed, exacerbated its structural problems and laid the groundwork for a far greater disaster…
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Japan and China is very different. Bubble is the same but the situation is different.

China is growing at 8+ percent. Many of its citizens are rapidly moving up the ladder and demanding better housing. Like Singaporeans moving from attap hut room to 2 room flats. Chinese G is in much better fiscal shape than Jap G. I believe today Japanese G debt is running at 260% of GDP!!!

There maybe a surging asset bubble but behind that is great demand. Also remember that the Chinese have a 40% savings rate. So you factor in lots of savings, need for housing and that could very well be support level for housing.

In the 80s, the Japs used their money to buy Pebble Beach, Hawaii golf courses, Rockerfella Centre. This time around Chinese are buying resources like copper, iron, oil, aluminum and even uranium. And if China remains at 8% growth and india remains at 6% growth, commodity prices will fly and so will manufactured goods. India itself will become a large market for Chinese manufactured goods like TV, washing machines, electronics, clothing.

Was reading a recent India China trade article. India sell mainly commodities to China like iron ore and cotton. In return China exports manufacturered goods back to India. Very similar to Australia.

Unfortunately this bubble comes at the price of stimulating economy. If the Chinese officials can stall price increases then the 8% economic growth would deflate the bubble.

Big property bubble forming in China, warns leading developer

Financial Times UK
By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bcf0ced2-d4ab-11de-a935-00144feabdc0.html
Published: November 19 2009 02:00 | Last updated:
November 19 2009 02:00

A large bubble is forming in China's property market as a result of Beijing's credit-driven stimulus programme, one of the country's most prominent real estate developers warned.

Zhang Xin, chief executive of Soho China, one of the country's most successful privately-owned property developers, told the Financial Times the asset bubble was leading to rampant wasteful investment in the sector, undermining the country's long-term growth prospects.

"Real estate prices should only go up because people want to actually use the space, but at the moment we can see more and more empty buildings across the whole country and in every real estate segment," Ms Zhang said. "The rising prices are a direct result of so much money coming from the banks and the Chinese banks should be very worried."

Ms Zhang's assessment was echoed by Fan Gang, a member of the central bank's monetary policy committee, who warned yesterday that real estate in cities such as Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen was expensive and there was a growing risk of asset price bubbles.

China is now on the same bubble path as Japan post-1987 crash

This article by Peter Tasker, a well-regarded financial analyst in Asia, comes via the Financial Times (hat tip Marshall). He sees an enormous bubble forming in China – and parallels to Japan circa 1987:

To anyone who has lived through the rise and fall of the Japanese bubble economy, it should set off alarm bells.

Remember that it was in the years following the 1987 "Black Monday" crash that Japanese assets went from being expensive to absurdly overvalued and the Nikkei’s dizzy rise to 39,000 forced the bears to throw in the towel…

But what you saw was decidedly not what you got. The crisis, far from leaving Japan unscathed, exacerbated its structural problems and laid the groundwork for a far greater disaster…
 

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
Whatever be the theories, it is prudent to keep this
"bubble" thing in mind. If anything should happen
at least the possibility of individuals like you and me
getting badly burnt in stocks and property investments
are minimized by taking adequate precautions by foresight
and a bit of hindsight.

Thats all to it.
 

dysentry

Alfrescian
Loyal
What if you built a city and they don't come?

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zuoom

Alfrescian
Loyal
as some has mentioned, China is rather big with a pretty big population.

some stand by the notion that "they will come".

though the question is if there's a oversupply in construction, in order to prop up the overall GDP figures.
 

longbow

Alfrescian
Loyal
With the number of new stock trading account being registered in China it is definately a bubble. In fact the whole world is sloshing in money. Question is given the chance for inflation is cash king?

Buffet just convert $20B of his cash into railway stocks - he thinks inflation perhaps? His company just got a downgrade because of his current low cash position.

Remember that in period of high inflation, debt is your friend.

Whatever be the theories, it is prudent to keep this
"bubble" thing in mind. If anything should happen
at least the possibility of individuals like you and me
getting badly burnt in stocks and property investments
are minimized by taking adequate precautions by foresight
and a bit of hindsight.

Thats all to it.
 

Watchman

Alfrescian
Loyal
capt.341b0730da7a40698035d54897802f57.banking_reform_protest_ilks206.jpg


Whatever happens to USA .

China is just a continent and years away !
 
Last edited:

GoFlyKiteNow

Alfrescian
Loyal
The last bubble bust and follow on crash..
the number of people , here HK and elsewhere,
who were hit and their families put to terrible ordeal..
the human costs are just not not worth this risk.

Be prudent.

"Be fearful when the market is greedy" ( Warren Buffet )
 

singveld

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
i will open a champagne bottle when that happen
china crash will be a thing to celebrate.
 
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