Aussie Uni Not Good Enough According to Foreign Academics

[londoncabby]

http://www.news.com.au/national/aussie-unis-not-good-enough-say-saudis/story-e6frfkvr-1225904673589

Aussie unis not good enough, say Saudis

Saudi minister's criticisms spark row
Warns about "low level" Aussie universities
Australian Academics press for immediate retraction

SAUDI Arabia has sparked a diplomatic incident after bluntly suggesting that Australian universities outside the elite sandstones weren't good enough to train its future academics.
On the advice of the Saudi Cultural Mission in Canberra, the Saudi Minister for Higher Education Khaled bin Mohammed al-Ankary has directed its universities to limit international scholarships for trainee academics to those studying at Australia's so-called Group of Eight, which includes the Australian National University and the universities of Melbourne and Sydney.

The correspondence has been passed to Australian universities by concerned Saudi students.

Universities Australia has expressed its "deep concern" at the Saudi stance and asked the mission to retract the "negative connotations".

The mission has since clarified to students that the policy is a preference to have more higher degree research students studying at Group of Eight universities, but that students won't be required to move out of those not in the group

..According to an English translation of the mission's letter to the ministry supplied to universities, Cultural Attache Ali Mohammed al-Bishri says scholarships for trainee academics are going to Australian universities of "a medium or low level" and it would be better to limit them to the Group of Eight .

In an apparent reference to Dr al-Ankary, the letter says "his highness states that he is worried about the low level of these universities". In response, UA chairman Peter Coaldrake has written to Dr al-Bishri, telling him he has been "misinformed on the relative standards of universities in Australia".

The Australian has obtained copies of the correspondence.

Dr al-Bishri did not return calls yesterday.

Some expressed concern that graduates from non-Group of Eight universities would not get academic jobs in Saudi Arabia. There are claims that some students received letters from their sponsoring Saudi university telling them to switch.

 

[IWC2006]

http://www.news.com.au/national/aussie-unis-not-good-enough-say-saudis/story-e6frfkvr-1225904673589

Aussie unis not good enough, say Saudis

Saudi minister's criticisms spark row
Warns about "low level" Aussie universities
Australian Academics press for immediate retraction

SAUDI Arabia has sparked a diplomatic incident after bluntly suggesting that Australian universities outside the elite sandstones weren't good enough to train its future academics.
On the advice of the Saudi Cultural Mission in Canberra, the Saudi Minister for Higher Education Khaled bin Mohammed al-Ankary has directed its universities to limit international scholarships for trainee academics to those studying at Australia's so-called Group of Eight, which includes the Australian National University and the universities of Melbourne and Sydney.

The correspondence has been passed to Australian universities by concerned Saudi students.

Universities Australia has expressed its "deep concern" at the Saudi stance and asked the mission to retract the "negative connotations".

The mission has since clarified to students that the policy is a preference to have more higher degree research students studying at Group of Eight universities, but that students won't be required to move out of those not in the group

..According to an English translation of the mission's letter to the ministry supplied to universities, Cultural Attache Ali Mohammed al-Bishri says scholarships for trainee academics are going to Australian universities of "a medium or low level" and it would be better to limit them to the Group of Eight .

In an apparent reference to Dr al-Ankary, the letter says "his highness states that he is worried about the low level of these universities". In response, UA chairman Peter Coaldrake has written to Dr al-Bishri, telling him he has been "misinformed on the relative standards of universities in Australia".

The Australian has obtained copies of the correspondence.

Dr al-Bishri did not return calls yesterday.

Some expressed concern that graduates from non-Group of Eight universities would not get academic jobs in Saudi Arabia. There are claims that some students received letters from their sponsoring Saudi university telling them to switch.

'Outside the sandstone elite universities' standards are indeed questionable as many seek international students for income.

As long u go to any of the Group of eight unis then you'll fine. Well, even you'll not - as a Aussie, you could stilll land lucrative jobs in Asia graduating fro mediocre uni.

 

[Don Muthuswamy]

There are good and crap universities in any country including USA and UK. So why should Australia be any different?

 

[QXD]

Low standards in UK universities

British Universities supply their students with a poor quality


In any other country but the United Kingdom students get more hours of tuition.
In Britain not only the duration for achieving a degree but also the intensity of study on a weekly basis is way less than in any other European country.

In comparison: In British universities students spend approximately 20 to 25 hours studying a week, whereas their counterparts in Portugal, France, and Germany spend up to 40 hours of lectures and private study a week.
One can argue now, that quantity has no effect on quality.

But: Universities should take that matter a bit more serious; after all it can cause a cutback of full-fee paying international students. Foreign students already doubt on the quality of degrees at British universities.

Bahram Bekhradnia, director of the institute and one of the report's authors, states that "a worrying proportion of international students in England already believe they receive poor value for money."

According to the Higher Education Policy Institute (Hepi) it also will be harder for UK universities to continue to argue in the Bologna process, which is attempting to harmonise degrees across Europe, that shorter courses are just as good.

A great excuse for students and universities is that "so many students now have paying jobs…," mentions Professor Graham Gibbs, former director of the Institute of the Advancement of University Learning at Oxford University, "…In England, students are often working up to 20 hours a week but still getting their degrees in three years, while 20 hours a week of study time has become the norm for some subjects."

Well, if that is the excuse: Please Mr. Gibbs, explain us how students in Eastern Europe are able to work for more than 30 hours a week to pay their rent and still study for the same amount of time?!
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[QXD]

Re: Low standards in UK universities

High Uni standards in Zimbabwe


University Study in Zimbabwe

Zimbabwe boasts a network of seven state universities around the country, the flagship which is the University of Zimbabwe which is a comprehensive university offering faculties of Medicine, Law, Engineering, Agriculture, Business and Arts and Sciences. The National University of Science and Technolgy (NUST) based in Bulawayo houses some of the countries’ best science and engineering programs. Generalist university degrees (Bachelor of Arts and Bachelor of Science) are three years with a fourth honors year offered and specialist degree programs are either three or four years in duration. Degrees of medicine, engineering and law take five years to complete. Two well-established private universities, Africa University (Methodist) and Solusi University (Seventh Day Adventist) follow American grading and liberal arts curricular patterns. Despite alarming brain drain of faculty, Zimbabwean universities have maintained remarkably high standards of education.

 

[QXD]

Re: Low standards in UK universities

Education standards in Iran are of the highest quality.


THANKS TO THE UNIVERSITY OF TEHRAN

<!-- .post-content --> Posted on February 25th, 2010 under general with 49 replies.
<!-- .post-meta -->

We just returned from a trip to the Middle East, which included stops in Lebanon, Syria, and the Islamic Republic of Iran. We will be writing about our meetings, discussions, and observations on this trip in future posts. First, though, we want to express our gratitude to the Faculty of World Studies at the University of Tehran for inviting us to come and meet with their students and faculty.
We particularly want to say how impressed we were with the graduate students in American studies with whom we had the opportunity to spend some time. University admissions in Iran are done on the basis of competitive national examinations. Those Iranian students who end up at the University of Tehran are among the brightest young people in the country. But, beyond their obvious intelligence and talent, the graduate students in American studies impressed us with their seriousness and determination to explore their subject as deeply as possible.
One of our favorite moments came when two female graduate students (most of the graduate students we met are women) asked us for advice. The two were preparing for an exercise in one of their classes, in which students would—in English—hold a mock U.S. congressional debate about health care reform legislation. These two students were tasked to represent the Republican side of the debate. They had already done extensive research; they were, for example, aware of editorial differences among CNN, MSNBC, and Fox in these networks’ coverage of the health care debate in the United States. But, while these two students had the opportunity to talk with a couple of American political analysts, they wanted to deepen their understanding of the nuances of conservative argument about health care reform in the United States. So, we did our best to channel our inner David Frum and tell them what we could about conservative perspectives on health care issues. We hope those students got something useful out of the conversation. (They were nice enough to say that they did.) We also wish that more Americans could encounter young Iranians like those we met.
Shortly before we arrived in Tehran, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the Islamic Republic is turning into a “military dictatorship”. As we drove around Tehran, we looked hard to see a soldier anywhere on the street but did not see a single one—except for a couple at the entrance to the Behest-e Zahra cemetery just south of Tehran, where many of the Iranian soldiers killed in the Iran-Iraq War are buried. Over the years, we have spent a lot of time in a lot of Middle Eastern capitals. We have never been in one—including in Egypt and Israel—that has fewer guys in uniform on the streets than in Tehran right now.
–Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett

 

[QXD]

http://www.news.com.au/national/aussie-unis-not-good-enough-say-saudis/story-e6frfkvr-1225904673589Aussie unis not good enough, say Saudis

Sigh...and there you are, still stuck in your 3-rm flat masturbating over an American Visa...:p:p

YAWN....

 

[Aussie Prick]

There are good and crap universities in any country including USA and UK. So why should Australia be any different?

Well Australia is not exactly known for tertiary education is it? People regard Europe and US institutions much higher than Australian Unis.

 

[axe168]

Re: Low standards in UK universities

Education standards in Iran are of the highest quality.


THANKS TO THE UNIVERSITY OF TEHRAN

Haha... I make sure my son can study in Iran ! Highest quality ! hahaha

Cut & paste is no brainer

 

[IWC2006]

well considering Oz is still a relative young country without the history of America and europe; sheer size of country with only 30+ universities, its graduates (like myself hehe) and academics are in great demand throughout the world, i reckon its a great achievement in higher education. The only letdown is too much financial dependency on international students, thus lowering the standards and perceived quality. well, the same can be said of british institutions -other than oxbridge, all other unis are relatively easy to get in as long you show them the money. America has too many good unis to choose, but there's many bogus unis as well.

 

[neddy]

http://www.news.com.au/national/aussie-unis-not-good-enough-say-saudis/story-e6frfkvr-1225904673589

Aussie unis not good enough, say Saudis

Some expressed concern that graduates from non-Group of Eight universities would not get academic jobs in Saudi Arabia. There are claims that some students received letters from their sponsoring Saudi university telling them to switch.

I spoke to Saudi undergraduates in Curtin Univ at the univ Muslim prayer place (they gather there to collect the Saudi-style halal food from a vendor), they are not bothered. They are having a good time in Australia and wish they do not want to return and challenge the system there.

What else can you say about a country that finds women not good enough to drive.


It is all politics!

 

[QXD]

Look at the awesome achievement by the Saudi Uni!!!

Gosh, looks like the troll would rather potong himself and goto the Middle East for his degree!!

Saudi university among the world's best 200

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A Saudi graduate student at King Saud University

</td></tr></tbody></table>CAIRO (Al Arabiya)
<mainbody xmlns="">A renowned university in Saudi Arabia entered the club of the world's best 200 academic institutions according to the Spanish international classification system "Webometrics," which also ranked the university as the first in Arab and Islamic Worlds for web visibility.

King Saud University (KSU) ranked 197 worldwide and the first in the Arab and Islamic university world for its Internet dissemination of scientific knowledge, reaching a wider audience of researchers and institutions with its advanced web policy, according to the Webometrics Ranking of World's Universities.</mainbody>

<center>

</center>
King Saud University jumped from 3259th place in 2007 to 292nd place in 2009

In 2007 KSU occupied the 3259th place, and in July 2008 it came in at the 380th place, finally reaching the 292nd place in 2009 in an unprecedented jump for an Arab and Islamic university ever. For Asia, KSU was the 21st.

KSU's record achievement was attributed to its diversified development scheme that aimed to advance its nano program and satellite labs as well as its renowned recruitment policy that allows for partnering with the best scientists including Nobel laureates.

Following KSU, four other Saudi universities occupied the top five placements with Cairo University coming in at the 6th place.

Webometrics is an initiative of the Cybermetrics Lab, a research project devoted to the quantitative analysis of the Internet and Web contents specially those related to the processes of generating scholarly communication of scientific knowledge. </pbody></p>

I spoke to Saudi undergraduates in Curtin Univ at the univ Muslim prayer place (they gather there to collect the Saudi-style halal food from a vendor), they are not bothered. They are having a good time in Australia and wish they do not want to return and challenge the system there.

What else can you say about a country that finds women not good enough to drive.


It is all politics!

 

[axe168]

well considering Oz is still a relative young country without the history of America and europe; sheer size of country with only 30+ universities, its graduates (like myself hehe) and academics are in great demand throughout the world, i reckon its a great achievement in higher education. The only letdown is too much financial dependency on international students, thus lowering the standards and perceived quality. well, the same can be said of british institutions -other than oxbridge, all other unis are relatively easy to get in as long you show them the money. America has too many good unis to choose, but there's many bogus unis as well.

Which Uni are you from ? 3 Cheers for Australian Grad !

 

[IWC2006]

Which Uni are you from ? 3 Cheers for Australian Grad !

One of the Go8 uni. Well I've also have a Master degree from our mightly NUS, but I take the Aussie uni anytime.

 

[Ash007]

'Outside the sandstone elite universities' standards are indeed questionable as many seek international students for income.

As long u go to any of the Group of eight unis then you'll fine. Well, even you'll not - as a Aussie, you could stilll land lucrative jobs in Asia graduating fro mediocre uni.

For those that are interested in which are the sandstone universities and the Group of 8. The Group of 8 are also known as the Ivy league of Australia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandstone_university

In Australia, the sandstone universities are an informally-defined group comprising the country's oldest tertiary education institutions. Most were founded in the colonial era with the exception of both the University of Queensland (1909) and the University of Western Australia (1911). All of the universities included in the group have (or formerly had, in the case of the University of Tasmania) buildings constructed primarily of sandstone. Membership of the group is based on age; some universities, such as Bond University, a private institution, have sandstone buildings but are not considered sandstone universities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Eight_(Australian_universities)

The Group of Eight (Go8) is a group of eight Australian tertiary institutions in Australia. It was established informally as a network of vice-chancellors in 1994 and was formally incorporated in 1999.
All members of the group except ANU, UNSW and Monash are known as "sandstone universities", and all of their primary campuses are based in the six largest Australian capital cities.
The group, in arguing for prioritisation of research funding and in lobbying for increased funding for the largest and most popular campuses, sometimes finds itself at odds with smaller, regional and rural universities.

 

[axe168]

One of the Go8 uni. Well I've also have a Master degree from our mightly NUS, but I take the Aussie uni anytime.

Bloody hell !

I have O level from our non-elite Catholic School and a Diploma from mighty Poly... I should stay here to compete with the ex-convicts..

ya over qualified ! Should return to SG to drive a taxi

 

[IWC2006]

Bloody hell !

I have O level from our non-elite Catholic School and a Diploma from mighty Poly... I should stay here to compete with the ex-convicts..

ya over qualified ! Should return to SG to drive a taxi

Asians here also have the 'paperchase syndrome. I've met a couple of them with multiple degrees and still pursuing another degree. One of them did his bachelor to his 3rd postgraduate degree consecutively, after a few yrs break still continuing another postgraduate degree even with a family...pretty scary. Anyway almost all firms here sponsored tertiary degrees(no bond unlike SG), and pay almost no fee thru fee-help. Its the international students that are paying the hefty tuition fees.

Perhaps I should use the tax payer's money to pursue a PHD or a law degree?

Why moving back? :-)

 

[Ash007]

Asians here also have the 'paperchase syndrome. I've met a couple of them with multiple degrees and still pursuing another degree. One of them did his bachelor to his 3rd postgraduate degree consecutively, after a few yrs break still continuing another postgraduate degree even with a family...pretty scary. Anyway almost all firms here sponsored tertiary degrees(no bond unlike SG), and pay almost no fee thru fee-help. Its the international students that are paying the hefty tuition fees.

Perhaps I should use the tax payer's money to pursue a PHD or a law degree?

Why moving back? :-)

I have noticed that as well. A lot goes back to uni just to get another paper. Pretty weird, considering you can't really tax deduct it. Maybe they have been tax deducting it via their tax and getting away with it. I suspect a lot are doing this only to get creamed big time by the ATO in a couple of years time.

 

[axe168]

Asians here also have the 'paperchase syndrome. I've met a couple of them with multiple degrees and still pursuing another degree. One of them did his bachelor to his 3rd postgraduate degree consecutively, after a few yrs break still continuing another postgraduate degree even with a family...pretty scary. Anyway almost all firms here sponsored tertiary degrees(no bond unlike SG), and pay almost no fee thru fee-help. Its the international students that are paying the hefty tuition fees.

Perhaps I should use the tax payer's money to pursue a PHD or a law degree?

Why moving back? :-)

My company also sponsor Master Degree too.. I'm too sick to study liao :( feel like getting my hands dirty rather than working my mind, hehe.

I am toying around the idea, returning to idle or semi-retire... while working on my own - selling chickens via internet I wanabe be a non-resident for tax purposes.