Alex Serrenti's ltr to ST Forum Gets a Robust Rebuttal From Conservative Singgies

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Alex Serrenti's Aware Ltr ST Forum Gets a Robust Rebuttal From Conservative Singgies

Suspension of Aware programme sends wrong message

I READ with great concern the Ministry of Education's statement regarding the suspension of Aware's Comprehensive Sexuality Education programme.
The programme was based on material put together by leading international academics, health workers and medical experts working with the International Women's Health Coalition. As such, it is a document reflecting some of the most recent research on women's health, reproductive and gender issues worldwide. Singaporean counsellors, social workers, law enforcement officers, parents and teachers have attested to the value and importance of Aware's programme for our youth today.

The suspension of the programme is a step in the wrong direction and sends a message that as a society, we are not prepared to stand up for the facts as established by authoritative medical and social work groups when social pressure is strong. Surely, this is not the signal we want to send, both to groups in Singapore and also to the international community to which Singapore belongs.

Alexandra Serrenti (Ms)

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

voice0freason

Today, 08:10 AM

Dear Alexandra Serrenti (Ms),

MOE's action is a step in the right direction. A progressive one even. Kudos to them for acknowledging and working to resolve a lapse in their processes.

Please read one parent's account of what Aware's trainer actually taught. Where is the neutrality? How is this sex education appropriate? What is the crediblity of the trainer? In my opinion, MOE should send the right signal to the public by metting a severe fine on Aware for breaking MOE's guideline. The public is watching.

Reference
http://voices.todayonline.com/letter....html#Let ter

Parent's letter printed in full here
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Online Only: CSE: Speakers veered "off track"
08:45 PM May 7, 2009
Letter from Susan Foo
I refer to “Don’t skirt the issue by shielding children” (May 6).

Has Mr Joseph Wong himself sat in for any of these talks conducted by Aware? How did he conclude that Awarehas the funds and resources to engage “experienced professionals” to conduct such sexuality education? Is he able to enlighten the public what kind of training or qualification Aware’s Comprehensive Sexuality Education (CSE) programme conductors are equipped with?

I am a mother of a 15 year-old daughter who was on the receiving end of one segment of a CSE program conducted by Aware last year. According to the school authorities whom I approached, the speaker was expected to touch on the topic of teenage pregnancy and discourage premarital sex. But instead, she veered away in her delivery and told the students how she grew up on a diet of pornographic movies, having watched them together with her parents and grandparents at home! She also casually let on that she was an unwed mother with a school-going son. When my daughter recounted to me what she learned from the CSE programme in school, she sounded both alarmed and confused that her school seemed to condone an immoral lifestyle.

I queried my daughter’s school principa who revealed that the speaker was roped in from Aware, and that the school had contacted them immediately after the talk to express their displeasure with her shocking “off track” delivery.

I am highly doubtul about the qualification and experience of Aware's CSE programme trainers, apart from the controversial areas of the programme guidelines. Such a delicate subject, when delivered by rookie trainers, is doing more harm than good to our young and impressionable minds.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

dragonovic93

Today, 09:02 AM

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"Suspension of Aware programme sends wrong message".......YES it was done without taking into account what the Senior Minister of Education, S.Iswaran just said about readers not getting their facts right before 'condemning MOE for not meticulousy scrutinized the AWARE programmes before implementing into the school curriculum.

Yet Iswaran is still SILENT and have YET to apologise for his "error in judgment".........and YET continue to draw his "fat' salary from tax payers' money! Talk about INTEGRITY, what do our top civil servants have???????? What a bloody DISGRACE......as usual, talk is free and Iswaran is not ACCOUNTABLE for any slipups or should I say SCREWUPS?


dragonovic93

Today, 09:02 AM

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There you have it. International experts or not there is more to the programme that who drew it up. Contents, tutors(rookies), methods of dispensing knowledge. And being international experts, all the more so that the syllabus should be scrutinized properly before being approved, what went wrong here in the first place.

And it took a "sinister" and "clanderstine" operation, at least that's how the old hags put it, to expose all this. I think we need more of these procedures.

The sinister part was how some were accused of being clandestine in order to impose religious values on the secular organization. As we have seen now, that was not the case, the course is being reviewed and is there an apopolgy forthcoming for the wrongful accusations. No siree, nothing, nil, zilch. So much for graceful ladies.

What Aware needs now more than anything else is a course on feminine behaviour, ethics, courtesy, gracefulness, etc., how not to behave like gangsters ala current committee and mentors and supporters and they can make up the first class. We will get Josie Lau and company to be their tutor.



justifly

Today, 09:27 AM

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By who standards are these int'l experts accredited to ? Gay and lesbian movement ? or society of unwed mothers ?
This is S'pore not America. Don't lump the whole world into one skewed segment of society that advocates no morals, ettiques, dignity and the natural.


justifly


CharSiew

Today, 10:06 AM

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I READ with great amusement Alexandra Serrenti’s statement regarding the suspension of Aware's Comprehensive Sexuality Education program. It might be interesting to note that she is currently an NUS Philosophy lecturer. Despite being written by a philosopher in training, her letter is fraught with logical fallacies that even a college sophomore could spot. Perhaps when the LGBT activist attempts to impose one’s beliefs on society, logic can go out of the window.

Although she claimed that the CSE program “was based on material put together by leading international academics, health workers and medical experts working with the International Women's Health Coalition,” this claim is an argumentum ad verecundiam at best. Parents in Singapore are mainly concerned with the moral values conveyed to vulnerable young minds by the CSE program, such as the alleged moral “neutrality” of homosexuality, lesbianism and pre-marital sex. As such, the authorities so quoted are irrelevant to the issue at hand as they are neither ethicists nor moral teachers.

Despite Ms Serrenti’s claim that “it is a document reflecting some of the most recent research on women's health, reproductive and gender issues worldwide,” she does not claim that the document is an authority on moral values, and ought to have realized that her objection is also a red herring, and worse, an ignoratio elenchi. Furthermore, her emphasis on “recent research” commits the logical error of chronological snobbery. A simple example would be the facts on Vitamin C. Vitamin C, based on previous “most recent” research was believed to shorten the time to recovery for influenza. But later research claimed that it wasn’t so. The “most recent” research does not equate to correctness or truth.

Ms Serrenti also alleged that, “Singaporean counsellors, social workers, law enforcement officers, parents and teachers have attested to the value and importance of Aware's programme for our youth today.” This is an argumentum ad populum or an appeal to the masses at best. Likewise, “counsellors, social workers, law enforcement officers, parents and teachers” might have attested to seeing a flying spaghetti monster last night, but does that make it true? I could similarly collate a list of “Singaporean counsellors, social workers, law enforcement officers, parents and teachers” who would attest against “the value and importance of Aware's programme for our youth today.” Would that settle the issue for Ms Serrenti the philosopher?

The suspension of the program is a step in the right direction and sends a message that as a society, we are not prepared to accept immorality and irresponsible behavior presented in the guise of amoral scientific “facts as established by authoritative medical and social work groups.” Surely, this is the signal we want to send, both to groups in Singapore and also to the international community to which Singapore belongs. Let Singapore bravely lead the moral zeitgeist in the right direction within this age of moral decadence.

A college sophomore


CharSiew

dingdang

Today, 10:13 AM

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The Instructor's Guide of CSE clearly reveals the subversive message that AWARE wants it trainers to put across to support homosexuality! I wonder why ST did not dig into such kind of background and information, the same way they go round digging into the personal background of Josie and team...aimed the arrow at Christianity etc...is ST part of this overall sneaking and scheming plot to covertly support and promote homosexuality???

It seems that not only CSE were trying hard to promote homosexuality, but also challenging Singapore's law as well. Is this not good enough to bring them to court??

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Eagle2004

Today, 10:24 AM

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The hordes of women (many of them mothers) 'lured' into Suntec City to support the Old Guard back into power, through jeering, shouting, gesticulating, aggressive posturing & rude interruptions, have been betrayed!

It seems that the Old Guard of Aware, after gloating over their 'hollow victory' last weekend, find themselves in sinking sand now.

In spite of claiming to champion the cause of all women i.e. such as mothers & their daughters, the unravelling of Aware's pro-gay & lesbian agenda is taking them on a downward spiral, so soon after the 'highs' of last week's ugly confrontation.

Clearly, Constance Singam, Dana Lam & their followers seem to make a career of falling over when the wind changes direction, & it has certainly changed direction now with the uncovering of Aware's hidden agenda i.e. their sexuality education program.

Is it any surprise that the authorities have suspended the program in schools? Who knows what their further investigations will turn up later? The Old Guard reap what they sow. Aware should clean up his act, & stop crying wolf; we know who the wolves in sheep's clothing are now.


Eagle2004

nocoverupplease

Today, 10:53 AM

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Many people have pointed out ST's bias in reporting on this whole AWARE incident and I agree as the bias is glaringly obvious.

For example, the following facts about the funding of the AWARE CSE programs were never published in ST even though it was carried in an article on TODAYOnline[ http://www.todayonline.com/articles/317322.asp ]:

1. The Chen Su Lan Trust made a donation of S$113,000 to fully subsidise the AWARE CSE programs in schools
2. The chariman of the Trust is Rev Yap Kim Hao who is pastoral adviser to the Free Community Church, a gay church

Rev Yap is also a well-known gay advocate. Why is ST digging up everything about the new guard of AWARE but not this link to the AWARE CSE program?


nocoverupplease

MadKopee

Today, 11:21 AM

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Thank u for the link:

'Workshops were funded by donation' (reported in Today)

THE sex education workshops conducted by Aware at 11 secondary schools last year was fully subsidised, thanks to a donation from the Chen Su Lan Trust.

Each workshop cost between $500 and $600 but was free for the schools, which have not yet been named publicly.

Yesterday, former Aware president Constance Singam revealed to Today that $35,000 out of the $113,000 donated by the Chen Su Lan Trust last year was spent on the free Comprehensive Sexuality Education (CSE) workshops at schools.

Asked if he was aware of the content of the CSE programme, Reverend Yap Kim Hao, the chairman of the Chen Su Lan Trust, said that he had been given a “rough outline” of the programme, but he had not seen the teaching materials. When Today showed him two pages of the CSE trainers’ manual, which stated that “anal sex can be healthy” and that “homosexuality is perfectly normal”, Rev Yap said that he “had no problems” with the content.

“I recognise there are dissenting views, but these have to be presented and it’s up to the student to make a decision so (the trainer) is not promoting one particular view,” said Rev Yap.

The 80-year-old is a retired Bishop of the Methodist Church here and currently pastoral adviser to the Free Community Church. According to the church’s website, it accepts same-sex relationships and welcomes lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered persons.


MadKopee


ChiewBoonLeong

Today, 11:45 AM

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Thank you, nocoverupplease.

This is a glaring, in your face, type of revelation that, if can be established through references to reliable sources, should be past on and reveal several truths namely:

1. AWARE is supported by a gay group. It's not a women's group.
2. ST has biased reporting. If true, ST must be aware of this, or choose to cover up.


ChiewBoonLeong



meowingmao

Today, 11:45 AM

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Another point.

Regardless how AWARE views the ethical judgement of its neutral stance on pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex, perhaps it shoud ask the parents for permission before exposing these values to children. Surely the learned women of AWARE knows that there are Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Taoist, agnostic and athiest parents out there who are against these deplorable values.

Why didn't AWARE tell the parents beforehand? ARe they so sure that the values they are trying to infiltrate in would be accepted by the parents? If they think that throwing out their own version of CSE would bring us back 2 centuries, do hold an open discussion, with the manual out in full, with the parents and the press.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Reallyah

Today, 12:16 PM

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What makes AWARE women think that all parents want their children to embrace their values? They must have known that most parents would object violently to such teachings and therefore they sneakly penetrate into the schools through such channels to infiltrate their teachings that homosexuality and all that rubbish are neutral, to brainwash and prepare the next generation to readily accept and embrace alternative lifestyle.


Reallyah

dingdang

Today, 01:21 PM

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Beware, this Rev. Yap Kim Hao (also Chairman of Chen Su Lan trust which sponsored AWARE's CSE program) had been denounced and ex-communicated by the Methodist Church, and he is on his own (means not affliated to any Christian or Church group) as far as his Free Community Church is concerned:

---------------------------------
"The Methodist Church in Singapore embraces a fundamentalist viewpoint of sexuality. Unlike in many other churches in the world, the stance of the Methodist Church in Singapore is firm and embraced by an overwhelming majority of both laity and clergy. The Church has repeated reaffirmed it's objection to homosexuality, although the Church's very first Bishop, Bishop Dr. Yap Kim Hao, opposes this stance. The opposition of Bishop Dr. Yap has led to his being denounced by the current leadership of the Methodist Church in Singapore, and barred from both celebrating sacraments and preaching in the pulpit."
familyfamily

Today, 03:01 PM

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I disagree with the views of Alexandra Serrenti (Ms).

The number of parents and other members of the public that do not agree and protest against the content of Aware's Comprehensive Sexuality Education programme indicate the many that do not "attested to the value and importance of Aware's programme for our youth today".

Who are "the counsellors, social workers, law enforcement officers, parents and teachers" and "authoritative medical and social work groups" which support this program? These assertions are not supported.

MOE's decision to suspend Aware's program is instead a step in the right direction to reflect the values and social noms in Singapore.


Speakingof

Today, 03:16 PM

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"The suspension of the programme is a step in the wrong direction and sends a message that as a society, we are not prepared to stand up for the facts as established by authoritative medical and social work groups when social pressure is strong"

Please do not use the word "facts" unless they can be substantiated. Also please do not use "authoritative medical and social work groups" as though they have the final say. The "facts" still need to be checked and the groups need to be scrutinized - they can make mistakes and may even have an agenda.

It is not about social pressure, it is about preserving the values we deem as important to the family and society.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

these 2 are particularly good:p

dingdang

Today, 04:31 PM

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Alexandra Serrenti is a homosexual activists and an active member of AWARE + close ally of the old guards. She was the very person involved in organizing the "Action Plan For The Recovery Of AWARE"...can her statements here be seen as balance and unbiased?

Alexandra, were you one of those freaky shouting foreigner at the EGM last Saturday??



AlexSerrenti

Today, 04:44 PM

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I am an academic and an epicene figure.

How dare you insult my gender identity by calling me "miss?"

At least I have my favorite bike, my short haircut and my girlfriend. Oh, I also have my nice job in NUS. Get you values out of my face. And get your facts right!

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Misnomer

Today, 05:20 PM

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There is a picture of a certain Ms Alex Serrenti who appeared on the front page of The New Paper. Not sure if she is the writer of this letter. Without the salutation of "Ms" printed before the name, I would have had to guess her gender. Please see this link:

http://www.tnp.sg/news/story/0,4136,...60740,00.html?



jollybean

Today, 05:24 PM

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Having read all the comments, I agree totally with MOE's decision to suspend Aware's programe of the CSE. Singapore is still a country precious to all the Singaporeans and we hope that our Government will be sensible enough not to allow the liberalism of the west to immoralise our society! Regardless of race, language or religion, Singaporeans will still not allow same sex marriage, gays' activities to come to our shore! Our society unit is still a home comprises dad, mum and children!

ST should interview the background of all the so called AWARE committee now since the old guards have won! The public has said their piece. I do not believe and thought our media is always very impartial until this AWARE saga. It clearly show that ST is also pro-gay!



dingdang

Today, 05:29 PM

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Thanks Misnomer!

Yup, that's her!

Is it too difficult to know why she had written this letter just by her apperance...but what is more important, why she managed to get ST to published this letter (and another earlier on Apr 24, if I get it right...), and also appearing in the front page of the The New Paper...which bring us to the fact that she does have very close contact and relationship with ST's reporters or journalists, and therefore, can we conclude that certain elements in ST and the old guards are....it your guess anyway!!

 

[bellepepper02]

As they say, a little learning is a dangerous thing. This college sophomore thinks she's licked philosophy after doing philosophy 101.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

to avoid any misunderstandings...i take no sides on this issue...the purpose of this thread is just to try and highlight the apparent great divide between the conservative and liberal singgies

 

[lifeafter41]

to avoid any misunderstandings...i take no sides on this issue...the purpose of this thread is just to try and highlight the apparent great divide between the conservative and liberal singgies

It is between the silent majority of the conservative and the minority liberals, singgies or not, remains to be seen.

 

[bellepepper02]

Misnomer

Today, 05:20 PM

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There is a picture of a certain Ms Alex Serrenti who appeared on the front page of The New Paper. Not sure if she is the writer of this letter. Without the salutation of "Ms" printed before the name, I would have had to guess her gender. Please see this link:

http://www.tnp.sg/news/story/0,4136,...60740,00.html?



jollybean

Today, 05:24 PM

Thanks Misnomer!

Yup, that's her!

Is it too difficult to know why she had written this letter just by her apperance...but what is more important, why she managed to get ST to published this letter (and another earlier on Apr 24, if I get it right...), and also appearing in the front page of the The New Paper...which bring us to the fact that she does have very close contact and relationship with ST's reporters or journalists, and therefore, can we conclude that certain elements in ST and the old guards are....it your guess anyway!!

Hey jollybean, so there is some gender ambiguity about Ms Serrenti. At least she has some courage to dance to her own tune. If you have been near any university worth its salt over the last 20 years, you would know that gender regimes have been under attack across the whole gamut of humanities and social science disciplines. So what about you? Are you a 'real' man or 'real' woman? And how do you know? Whose gender scripts do you follow, and what gives them any more authority than Ms Serrenti's?

It's certainly possible that Ms Serrenti may know ST journalists. The latter happen to be very well-educated (given that ST has been taking in top scholars over the last decade), so it is probable that they are better able to relate to her ideas than to those of dinosaurs like Josie and company. And you.

So by nature of her being gender-ambiguous in appearance, that makes both ST and the old guard gay because they know her? I notice that you can't even bring yourself to take your logic to its illogical conclusion. Is that because somewhere deep inside, you know you are being very stupid?

By the way, why do you associate gender-ambiguity with being gay anyway? Don't you realise that for every butch gay woman, there is a femme gay woman? That you can't tell the difference between the femme gay woman and a conventional straight woman? And that there are a lot of women who appear butch but who are not gay at all but straight?

These two notes, more than any other, show that this whole Josie and company saga was not at all about attacking deviant sexualities but about attacking those who dare to spurn conventional gender roles, i.e that men must be virile, must be head of the household, exert authority, etc, and that women must be submissive to husband, breed like rabbits and cook and clean (please go to COOS website to see this).
http://www.coos.org.sg/resource/index.php?sectnum=p10&coospg=seminarcampnotes.html
Look at notes on "God's Order for the Family", where there is a page on "God's order for Wives".

That's why AWARE got into this debate. Not because they're protecting gays but because, underneath it all, this is a struggle about ideas concerning gender definitions and gender identities.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Bellepepper,

as an aside, i must say that i found the recently departed Marilyn French quite an attractive elegant lady...unfortunate that some people tend to generalise when it comes to feminist writers or any others for that matter

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

curiously, the same probably applies to gay men as well...for instance take the late Rock Hudson as a prime example of the masculine gay.

By the way, why do you associate gender-ambiguity with being gay anyway? Don't you realise that for every butch gay woman, there is a femme gay woman? That you can't tell the difference between the femme gay woman and a conventional straight woman? And that there are a lot of women who appear butch but who are not gay at all but straight?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

well i think Emelyn in ST 9/5 Insight would beg to differ...

"Homosexuality is not a religious issue. The very fabric of society is based on socially acceptable norms so that we can be more tolerant of people of varied backgrounds.

There is nothing wrong in our believing that the family should be made up of a father and a mother, with their wonderful children. And I will hit the roof,like any other normal mum, if any of the younger ones comes to us and insists that he or she wants to marry someone of the same sex. Respect has to be earned. I have just lost all respect for Aware"

PS. I never knew the old guard had even got onto same sex marriages??

These two notes, more than any other, show that this whole Josie and company saga was not at all about attacking deviant sexualities but about attacking those who dare to spurn conventional gender roles, i.e that men must be virile, must be head of the household, exert authority, etc, and that women must be submissive to husband, breed like rabbits and cook and clean (please go to COOS website to see this).

That's why AWARE got into this debate. Not because they're protecting gays but because, underneath it all, this is a struggle about ideas concerning gender definitions and gender identities.

Can everyone now see why AWARE, a feminist organisation that interrogates conventional roles assigned to women by patriarchal culture, was not fighting

 

[bellepepper02]

Bellepepper,

as an aside, i must say that i found the recently departed Marilyn French quite an attractive elegant lady...unfortunate that some people tend to generalise when it comes to feminist writers or any others for that matter

Marilyn French was the first feminist writer I read! I loved her "Women's Room"!

 

[chingchong]

Re: Alex Serrenti's Aware Ltr ST Forum Gets a Robust Rebuttal From Conservative Singg

Alex Serrenti is a woman with short cropped hair and rides a motorcycle, according to a New Paper report.

Dyke on bike. You like ?

 

[bellepepper02]

well i think Emelyn in ST 9/5 Insight would beg to differ...

"Homosexuality is not a religious issue. The very fabric of society is based on socially acceptable norms so that we can be more tolerant of people of varied backgrounds.

There is nothing wrong in our believing that the family should be made up of a father and a mother, with their wonderful children. And I will hit the roof,like any other normal mum, if any of the younger ones comes to us and insists that he or she wants to marry someone of the same sex. Respect has to be earned. I have just lost all respect for Aware"

PS. I never knew the old guard had even got onto same sex marriages??

Haha, what a dufus! Society has to be based on norms so that it can tolerate diversity? So everyone must be the same so that they can be different? The trouble with these people is that nobody bothers to expose their lack of logic.

There is nothing wrong with her "believing that the family should be made up of a father and a mother and their wonderful children." As long as she doesn't suggest that this is the only form a family can take for others. As in others are equal citizens to her. They too pay taxes and contribute to society.

If she wants to decide for others what their family should comprise, then I would suggest that she forms a political party and runs for election on that platform. And until she becomes PM, she should just well "shut up and sit down"!

 

[bellepepper02]

curiously, the same probably applies to gay men as well...for instance take the late Rock Hudson as a prime example of the masculine gay.

Clint Eastwood too, right? And Richard Chamberlain.

 

[bellepepper02]

Eagle2004


Regardless how AWARE views the ethical judgement of its neutral stance on pre-marital sex, homosexuality and anal sex, perhaps it shoud ask the parents for permission before exposing these values to children. Surely the learned women of AWARE knows that there are Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Taoist, agnostic and athiest parents out there who are against these deplorable values.

Why didn't AWARE tell the parents beforehand? ARe they so sure that the values they are trying to infiltrate in would be accepted by the parents? If they think that throwing out their own version of CSE would bring us back 2 centuries, do hold an open discussion, with the manual out in full, with the parents and the press.

How do these Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Taoist, and other parents who are against these "deplorable values" plan to innoculate their kids from the media and the internet, which will be passing on the same, if not more provocative, information? Shut them up at home, take the tv remote from them, and ban computers? And stop them from going to university where they will learn critical thinking--oh horror of horrors, the most "deplorable value" of all!

Or maybe by then, uni lecturers will have to send their teaching materials to COOS for vetting.

As for telling parents, that's what the opt out form is for. The school hires AWARE so it is up to the school to do the necessary liaison.

I wonder why these so-called concerned parents haven't bothered to find out which schools taught the programme (whether their kids underwent the CSE programme) and go after those school principals. Could it be because they're really not interested in protecting their kids but rather are more concerned that other people's kids never get such a programme in future?

 

[bellepepper02]

Eagle2004

Today, 10:24 AM

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The hordes of women (many of them mothers) 'lured' into Suntec City to support the Old Guard back into power, through jeering, shouting, gesticulating, aggressive posturing & rude interruptions, have been betrayed!

It seems that the Old Guard of Aware, after gloating over their 'hollow victory' last weekend, find themselves in sinking sand now.

In spite of claiming to champion the cause of all women i.e. such as mothers & their daughters, the unravelling of Aware's pro-gay & lesbian agenda is taking them on a downward spiral, so soon after the 'highs' of last week's ugly confrontation.

Clearly, Constance Singam, Dana Lam & their followers seem to make a career of falling over when the wind changes direction, & it has certainly changed direction now with the uncovering of Aware's hidden agenda i.e. their sexuality education program.

Is it any surprise that the authorities have suspended the program in schools? Who knows what their further investigations will turn up later? The Old Guard reap what they sow. Aware should clean up his act, & stop crying wolf; we know who the wolves in sheep's clothing are now.


Eagle2004

Constance Singam, Dana Lam and their followers are very well, thank you. They have not fallen over. They know very well that ultimately, society is responsible for itself. If our society is going to be stupid enough to follow people who cite the Old Testament as their moral authority, then they deserve what they finally reap. There is a price to be paid for wanting to take the moral shuttle back into ancient times. These idiotic women actually think they can have careers, equal opportunities, wealth and comfort, educated children, and still subscribe to the value system of a pre-modern era! Modernity was not won by holding on to pre-modern values.