Forest City

sgtsk said:

It is in the plan that FC could be an off shore financial centre when China's financial and wealth management markets are advanced enough. By then, Singapore would be pressed on all fronts.

Click to expand...

Too distant possibility that make it seem impossible. I would agree with snowbird.

1. When china will free up their regulation on their finance sector...or mature enough to go globally? In 10 years? FC will certainly need longer time to be an ideal place for china to set their foothold in there. And when time come, thing will change again...who knows sg ady beh tahan change policy to be on china sides?

2. The whole regional market is too small to support iskandar as a financial center. Using shenzhen n hangseng is inaccurate bcoz it is supported by the volume of trade due to both economy sheer size. HK is global market whild shenzhen exchange supported by china market, and HK market was not open to mainlanders for a long time before they lossening the law. So iskandar set up a stock exchange, it will be a small insignificant exchange. From both country economy size, 3 stock exchanges, yes it will affect and even threatening each other. Even stocks traded in sgx is quite mati, not that active like before.

rotikok said:

Too distant possibility that make it seem impossible. I would agree with snowbird.

1. When china will free up their regulation on their finance sector...or mature enough to go globally? In 10 years? FC will certainly need longer time to be an ideal place for china to set their foothold in there. And when time come, thing will change again...who knows sg ady beh tahan change policy to be on china sides?

2. The whole regional market is too small to support iskandar as a financial center. Using shenzhen n hangseng is inaccurate bcoz it is supported by the volume of trade due to both economy sheer size. HK is global market whild shenzhen exchange supported by china market, and HK market was not open to mainlanders for a long time before they lossening the law. So iskandar set up a stock exchange, it will be a small insignificant exchange. From both country economy size, 3 stock exchanges, yes it will affect and even threatening each other. Even stocks traded in sgx is quite mati, not that active like before.

Click to expand...

FC needs not be a full fledge financial centres like HK, Sgp, but may be an off shoot where banking transactions are done, financial products are marketed and sold, legal docs signed but for the other major financial centres like HK, SGP, Shanghai and other world markets. FC could also work the carribean or other off shore models. In such models, FC needs not have stock and fx markets.

sgtsk said:

FC needs not be a full fledge financial centres like HK, Sgp, but may be an off shoot where banking transactions are done, financial products are marketed and sold, legal docs signed but for the other major financial centres like HK, SGP, Shanghai and other world markets. FC could also work the carribean or other off shore models. In such models, FC needs not have stock and fx markets.

Click to expand...

I have never doubted the abilities and the means that China has to make FC a financial centre but rather are they willing to do so and allowed to do so.
To be a financial centre needs to be done from top down. Shenzhen is one because Beijing allows it.
Look at KL, it is nowhere near a financial centre so do you think Putrajaya would allow JB to be one?
Also, to be a true financial centre, the Feds may need to convert FC into a Federal Territory, do you think the Chinese owner and the Sultan would allows it?
Many years ago, the Feds had try to make Labuan a regional financial centre but see what happened or rather what did not happen and how is Labuan today.
Right now, Putrajaya is more keen for more Chinese money to develop the Bandar Malaysia where the HSR terminal is located and the nearly still born multi-billions TRX, Tun Razak Exchange which was supposed to be developed by the now bankrupt 1MDB.
Even building a simple shopping mall you need to have the good shop mix, the critical mass and the right customer base and for a financial centre, you can build all the buildings required but ultimately and most importantly, you need the 'software' to run, support and manage it. As far as one can see, this 'software' may not be available in another few decades.
So this hopeful juvenile suggestion of yours shall just have to remain hopeful.

snowbird said:

I have never doubted the abilities and the means that China has to make FC a financial centre but rather are they willing to do so and allowed to do so.
To be a financial centre needs to be done from top down. Shenzhen is one because Beijing allows it.
Look at KL, it is nowhere near a financial centre so do you think Putrajaya would allow JB to be one?
Also, to be a true financial centre, the Feds may need to convert FC into a Federal Territory, do you think the Chinese owner and the Sultan would allows it?
Many years ago, the Feds had try to make Labuan a regional financial centre but see what happened or rather what did not happen and how is Labuan today.
Right now, Putrajaya is more keen for more Chinese money to develop the Bandar Malaysia where the HSR terminal is located and the nearly still born multi-billions TRX, Tun Razak Exchange which was supposed to be developed by the now bankrupt 1MDB.
Even building a simple shopping mall you need to have the good shop mix, the critical mass and the right customer base and for a financial centre, you can build all the buildings required but ultimately and most importantly, you need the 'software' to run, support and manage it. As far as one can see, this 'software' may not be available in another few decades.
So this hopeful juvenile suggestion of yours shall just have to remain hopeful.

Click to expand...

I agree that FC is a malaysian territory, so approval for FC to be a financial centre of sort needs to come from Malaysia, just expansion of port klang, malacca port, Kuantan port,...not UN feasible also for financial centre.

Unlike Labuan, FC could make a different, having China bankrolling and be FC's biggest customer or services user.

Tighter Chinese capital controls push property firm to shift sales strategy
Sophia Yan
20 Hours Ago

A Chinese property developer is overhauling its showrooms promoting a major overseas development in order to broaden its sales strategy amid stronger capital controls.

Country Garden is temporarily shutting sales centers in China for its flagship $40 billion Forest City housing development in Malaysia partly in response to stronger government measures that are making it harder for people to move money out of China.

The decision is "to better fit with current foreign exchange policies and regulations," the company said in a statement.

Country Garden also stressed that this move was "not a knee-jerk reaction to [the] Chinese government's policy implementation," and that it had always planned to appeal to global buyers beyond China, including the Middle East and Europe.

A slowing economy and weakening yuan has prompted Chinese to seek better returns elsewhere, shifting money out of the country at an unprecedented rate. Capital outflows hit yet another record high last year, with a total of $725 billion leaving China, according to the Institute of International Finance.

Beijing has responded with stronger measures in attempts to keep more money onshore, making it much harder for both individuals and companies to invest abroad. It's a move that has hit overseas sales of property developers, which have historically been somewhat reliant on wealthy Chinese to snap up units. About 70 percent of Forest City's buyers thus far have been mainland Chinese, for instance.

Forest City has been touted as a major green living concept with numerous amenities from high-end retail to parks. There are also plans for a light rail transit system and a ferry network with links to Singapore.

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http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/12/tigh...sh-property-firm-to-shift-sales-strategy.html

碧桂园国际展销中心升级开放 加速打造国际产能产业合作新城
2017-03-14 碧桂园森林城市
北京、上海、深圳、广州等地20个碧桂园国际展销中心（IEC展厅）经过内部升级改造后，以全新面貌正式开放。展厅从原来海外项目展销的单一功能，升级成为碧桂园面向海内外品牌展示的重要平台。接下来，森林城市也将进入全面的产业引入阶段，将携手更多“中国智造”共同打造国际产能合作新城。


将加快优质产业引入
森林城市的发展愿景是打造一座经济、人文、生态及可持续发展的国际产能产业合作新城，计划引入八大产业，包括旅游会展、医疗保健、教育培训、外企驻地、近岸金融、电商基地、新兴科技、绿色与智慧产业，吸引全球优秀企业进驻。
去年12月6日，在马来西亚总理纳吉布的见证下，森林城市同36家战略合作伙伴签订合作备忘录，所涵盖的行业包括：制造业、金融、教育、绿色能源、医疗以及智慧城市。森林城市 “国际产能产业合作新城”的定位日渐凸显。

......

http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/OfXP4rg80RvQKu2nZ2Graw

Whatever marketing strategy taken by this well-capitalised property giant in the future will be at the expense of smallish developers. Anyone who has not sunk in any RM$ in property, my advise is please hold on to your cash.

China’s capital controls start biting

CHINA’s capital controls, invoked without much publicity since late last year to curb outflow of funds and to stabilise the yuan’s rate, are squeezing its investments abroad – including those in Malaysia.

This month, Malaysia suffered a rude shock when news broke that Johor’s mega Forest City project undertaken by China’s property giant Country Garden was hit by the controls.

So was China’s richest man Wang Jianlin, whose planned takeover of a Hollywood production house by Dalian Wanda Group was blown off as funds could not leave China.

In recent years, mainland Chinese corporations and cash-rich individuals have been the world’s largest buyers of real estate but this global property binge may subside soon.

Since late November, the world’s second largest economy has been scrutinising the deals and projects of its home grown companies abroad and fund repatriation by individuals, particularly towards mega property investments, doubtful mergers and acquisitions (M&A).

For companies, remittance of funds for overseas deals requires special approval from the central bank People’s Bank of China (PBOC) and other regulatory authorities.

Although the currency exchange quota for individuals is still US$50,000 (RM220,000) per person per year, there are additional restrictions to make it difficult for one to change yuan into foreign currencies.

There are many complaints from the ground now but Beijing’s actions appear justified, given that in the last three years, China has witnessed its foreign-exchange (forex) reserves dwindle to US$3tril (RM13tril) from US$3.8tril (RM16.8tril) in early 2014.
The central government is also concerned with the loss in yuan or renminbi (RMB) value. In November, the RMB fell to its lowest level against the US dollar in nearly eight years.

To maintain the yuan’s stability, the PBOC had to use the country’s forex reserves to support its currency levels.

In addition, there are concerns that many outbound investments are not genuine business transactions but “creative covers” for moving capital out as the yuan keeps weakening amid a slower economic growth.

The outcome of some large foreign acquisitions, particularly those by state-owned enterprises (SOEs), is also worrying.

For example, CNOOC – a SOE –paid US$15bil (RM66bil) in 2013 for Canada’s large oil and gas firm Nexen but the investment has suffered with the plunge in crude oil prices.

There have been deals with doubtful synergies, such as the purchase of a video game developer by a mining company a year ago.

Last year, China witnessed 794 outbound investments worth a whopping US$226bil (RM1tril) –more than double that of 2015, according to Dealogic’s data. And if these funds are allowed to flow out, China’s forex reserves and yuan will fall further this year.

China’s officials recently made it clear that these measures target suspicious deals and imprudent outbound investments.

On March 11, China’s Commerce Minister Zhong Shan warned, at the sidelines of the “two sessions” meetings, that officials will intensify supervision of “a small number of companies involved in blind and irrational investments”.

Zhou Xiaochuan, the country’s top central banker, questioned the wisdom of some recent overseas deals that included investments in sports, entertainment and clubs. He said: “This didn’t bring much benefit to China.”

The impact of these measures came to light this month when several major property projects overseas, including one in Malaysia, were hit by the capital controls.

On March 10, property-cum-entertainment company Dalian Wanda Group – owned by Wang Jianlin with a net worth of US$500bil (RM2.2tril) – became the first high-profile casualty under current forex rules.

Owners of Dick Clark Productions, the Hollywood company that runs the Golden Globe awards and Miss America pageants, terminated a US$1bil (RM4.4bil) deal after “Wanda failed to honour contractual obligations”.

This is seen as a setback to Wang’s current Hollywood ambition.

“China’s capital controls that subject many overseas deals to reviews of strict control is expected to put a damper on extra-large M&As as well as real estate purchases and investments abroad,” says Lee Heng Guie, a senior Malaysian economist.

Forest city, R&F hurt

On the same day (March 10), Malaysia was shaken by foreign news reports that Country Garden Holdings has shut down all its showrooms in China that promoted its huge Forest City project in Johor Baru, due to the crackdown on capital outflow.

Planned as a futuristic smart city project, Forest City is to be built on four man-made islands opposite Singapore.

The RM100bil mixed project, expected to be developed in 20 years, will enjoy total gross development value (GDV) of RM400bil.

As 80%-90% of Forest City buyers are from China, the company says it will modify its marketing strategy to target other nationals.

About the same time, the plight of other corporate victims was highlighted at China’s “two sessions”, where top politicians and legislators held annual meetings in Beijing.

Angry businessmen aired their grouses at the conferences on March 11 to top decision makers, as well as to reporters.

“It’s almost impossible to use the yuan to invest in overseas projects,” Citic Capital Holdings’ chairman Zhang Yichen told reporters.

“To say that capital controls don’t have any impact – it’s a lie.”

I warn everyone few years ago, that when one buy property in a country; one should just stick to that country developers.

So one will not get affected by factors affected by another country policies.

When I buy in Singapore; I only choose CDL, Keppeland, Capitaland.

When I buy in Malaysia; I choose MB, SP Setia and Astaka.

Now I start buying in Vietnam and my only 2 developer will only be Vinhomes or Vinaland.
Keppel and Capitaland are both available in Vietnam but I will never choose them.

Good luck Forrest City buyers.

How China’s overseas property dream turned into a nightmare
Capital controls mean people who signed up for flats in Malaysia cannot send money from mainland

A report on today's South China Morning Post suggest that something very serious is happening in this project.

A Mainland Chinese discovered recently that no bank on the mainland would help her pay for their overseas property dream.
When she attempted to transfer money to the vendor’s bank account in Hong Kong in January, her local bank told her the Hong Kong account was “not correct”.
However, she had managed to pay 20% of the amount she owed for the property to the same Hong Kong account earlier.

Now buyers understand all further instalments need to be paid abroad but this is not allowed due to the Chinese govt. foreign exchange controls and many worried that if they do so, they'll will be put on the government’s black list.
They are all now trapped in limbo and claimed misled by salespeople are now trying to get a refund.
“We thought it was a good and affordable deal to invest in overseas property, without thinking of the possible risks, and even signing the agreements in English even though we don’t know the language,” They claimed.

OMG!, What if all the Chinese buyers decide to quit the project????
The saga continues.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...inas-overseas-property-dream-turned-nightmare

snowbird said:

How China’s overseas property dream turned into a nightmare
Capital controls mean people who signed up for flats in Malaysia cannot send money from mainland

A report on today's South China Morning Post suggest that something very serious is happening in this project.

A Mainland Chinese discovered recently that no bank on the mainland would help her pay for their overseas property dream.
When she attempted to transfer money to the vendor’s bank account in Hong Kong in January, her local bank told her the Hong Kong account was “not correct”.
However, she had managed to pay 20% of the amount she owed for the property to the same Hong Kong account earlier.

Now buyers understand all further instalments need to be paid abroad but this is not allowed due to the Chinese govt. foreign exchange controls and many worried that if they do so, they'll will be put on the government’s black list.
They are all now trapped in limbo and claimed misled by salespeople are now trying to get a refund.
“We thought it was a good and affordable deal to invest in overseas property, without thinking of the possible risks, and even signing the agreements in English even though we don’t know the language,” They claimed.

OMG!, What if all the Chinese buyers decide to quit the project????
The saga continues.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...inas-overseas-property-dream-turned-nightmare

Click to expand...

waiting for 2 for 1 sale of forest city.

Ash007 said:

waiting for 2 for 1 sale of forest city.

Click to expand...

Last week, I had already anticipated that China's capital control will have a serious repercussion on the Forest City buyers and sure enough, SCMP followed up this week with a report on the same.
If really much of the some 10,000 Chinese buyers decide to quit from the sales, you think the development of this project can still proceed as scheduled?
Although the mega buyers/seller tussle may take some time to settle and if this really happen, I'm very sure local banks would not be too keen to offer anyone a loan for the unsold units of this project.
So, want to buy also may not be possible.

https://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?175256-Property-News&p=2582812#post2582812

Actually, the real reason about this new China capital control is to stop too much RMB from flowing out of the country, legally and illegally.
It is not uncommon for Chinese to carry with them bags full of currencies for their shopping, and for buying properties, maybe a suitcase full of banknotes.
Forest City had reported a sales of about RMB 20 billions which will means RMB 20 billions will leave the country legally and illegally so the Chinese govt. want this to stop.
And Forest City is just only one of the many overseas projects and I'm also quite sure many units in SG and other global cities will be similarly affected, just that this project attracted as much as 90% Chinese buyers.
It was reported that the Chinese Ambassador to MY just paid a visit to FC, so something may be brewing in the background, not sure good or bad, will know in time to come.
The saga continues indeed.

snowbird said:

Last week, I had already anticipated that China's capital control will have a serious repercussion on the Forest City buyers and sure enough, SCMP followed up this week with a report on the same.
If really much of the some 10,000 Chinese buyers decide to quit from the sales, you think the development of this project can still proceed as scheduled?
Although the mega buyers/seller tussle may take some time to settle and if this really happen, I'm very sure local banks would not be too keen to offer anyone a loan for the unsold units of this project.
So, want to buy also may not be possible.

https://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?175256-Property-News&p=2582812#post2582812

Actually, the real reason about this new China capital control is to stop too much RMB from flowing out of the country, legally and illegally.
It is not uncommon for Chinese to carry with them bags full of currencies for their shopping, and for buying properties, maybe a suitcase full of banknotes.
Forest City had reported a sales of about RMB 20 billions which will means RMB 20 billions will leave the country legally and illegally so the Chinese govt. want this to stop.
And Forest City is just only one of the many overseas projects and I'm also quite sure many units in SG and other global cities will be similarly affected, just that this project attracted as much as 90% Chinese buyers.
It was reported that the Chinese Ambassador to MY just paid a visit to FC, so something may be brewing in the background, not sure good or bad, will know in time to come.
The saga continues indeed.

Click to expand...

In terms of capital control, I hear rumours something will happen on July 1st. It's the foreign reserve that the Chinese government is worried about.

Ash007 said:

In terms of capital control, I hear rumours something will happen on July 1st. It's the foreign reserve that the Chinese government is worried about.

Click to expand...

Yes, this capital control is to curb the rapid and massive outflow of the RMB causing sharp fall in the exchange rate and the decline in the forex reserve which stood at about US$3.1 trillion.
An equivalent of US$309.4 billion left China via RMB payments in 2016, the biggest annual amount in data going back to 2010, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) data showed and this has to stop.
Upon implementation of capital control, the cash outflow immediately plummet, meaning efforts to keep cash at home are taking effect.
So looks like the buyers will not be able to service their loan from now on unless.........................payment will be allowed to be paid in China, which may not be impossible!!
After all, the developer and contractors are from China and the artificial islands were created and paid by them, most of the building material and workers are from China, etc., etc.,..............

China buyers cannot pay their instalment is small problem.

The biggest problem is the China developer cannot bring in the fund to complete the project.

Capital control also affect the China developer. When shit hit the fence; they will try to save their China market. Malaysia market can be forgotten.
R&F and Forrest City is "so call" buy 1 get 1 free project. They can give out condos in Malaysia FOC; you don't think they will just leave without completing their "over promise".

snowbird said:

Yes, this capital control is to curb the rapid and massive outflow of the RMB causing sharp fall in the exchange rate and the decline in the forex reserve which stood at about US$3.1 trillion.
An equivalent of US$309.4 billion left China via RMB payments in 2016, the biggest annual amount in data going back to 2010, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) data showed and this has to stop.
Upon implementation of capital control, the cash outflow immediately plummet, meaning efforts to keep cash at home are taking effect.
So looks like the buyers will not be able to service their loan from now on unless.........................payment will be allowed to be paid in China, which may not be impossible!!
After all, the developer and contractors are from China and the artificial islands were created and paid by them, most of the building material and workers are from China, etc., etc.,..............

Click to expand...

shctaw said:

China buyers cannot pay their instalment is small problem.

The biggest problem is the China developer cannot bring in the fund to complete the project.

Capital control also affect the China developer. When shit hit the fence; they will try to save their China market. Malaysia market can be forgotten.
R&F and Forrest City is "so call" buy 1 get 1 free project. They can give out condos in Malaysia FOC; you don't think they will just leave without completing their "over promise".

Click to expand...

So whole project might just collapse?

It's like treason to believe Forest City 'lies', Sultan tells Johoreans


Johor's Sultan Ibrahim Iskandar has likened Johoreans who believe "lies" peddled on the Forest City development in Pasir Gudang, to individuals who committed treason.

"For Johoreans who are influenced, it is like they have committed treason.

"All my hard work, my love, my efforts visiting all the districts every year, if this is what they show me, it is like they have disobeyed me," he said in an interview with the New Straits Times.

The Pasir Gudang development on four reclaimed land islands is fodder for political debate, with the opposition questioning the sale of freehold land to foreigners.

Sultan Ibrahim clarified that the land is indeed freehold, but the title is held by the company, not the buyers.

The buyers only hold the strata titles, which is also freehold.

Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak earlier said the Forest City properties were sold on a 99-year lease, but the developer has advertised it as freehold properties.

"We are not giving away Malaysian citizenship. The ones who came up with the Malaysia My Second Home concept was not me.

"Go ask the person who came up with it," the sultan said.

He was likely referring to Parti Pribumi Bersatu Malaysia (Bersatu) chairperson Dr Mahathir Mohamad, who was prime minister when the Malaysia My Second Home concept was introduced.

Meanwhile, Bersatu president Muhyiddin Yassin is former Johor menteri besar while the party's youth chief Syed Saddiq Abdul Rahman is a Johorean who once served in the Johor menteri besar's office.

Outsiders should get lost

Telling "outsiders" to butt out of Johor matters, the sultan said Johoreans who live outside of the state and have political ambitions should also "get lost".

"My advice for people from outside Johor, whether they are in politics or otherwise, is do not interfere with Johor's matters.

"To the outsiders who come and divide the people of Johor or Johoreans who live in Kuala Lumpur and have political ambitions and return to divide the people, I say get lost, you are not welcome here," he said.

The Forest City development has been heavily marketed to China investors, prompting questions of sovereignty.

It is also developed by Country Garden, China's third largest developer, but China's capital controls may jeopardise buyers' ability to pay, a Hong Kong daily reported.

Meanwhile, the sultan denied claims that he was selling Johor land for a profit.

Instead, the monarch said he had purchased a piece of land in Tanjung Puteri at a premium, so the government can make a profit.

"I sold land? If I tell you that I have bought land, you won't believe it," he said.

He said the land was valued at RM100 million but he paid the government thrice the price.

"I overpaid but nobody knew. Just ask the land office," he was quoted as saying.



Read more: https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/376583#ixzz4c3hwFKQC

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/376583

"Sultan Ibrahim clarified that the land is indeed freehold, but the title is held by the company, not the buyers.
The buyers only hold the strata titles, which is also freehold.
Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak earlier said the Forest City properties were sold on a 99-year lease, but the developer has advertised it as freehold properties."


Leasehold - You own the property and its land for the length of your lease agreement.
Freehold - You own the property outright, including the land it’s built on.

So, here you have a situation where the buyer actually bought a 99 years lease property but was advertised as freehold!
And you have the property owner on leasehold of 99 years but with strata title with freehold status!
However upon expiry of the lease, if the land reverts back to the state, then the land lease is actually leasehold and never freehold.
So, who is the real freehold owner of the land in FC?
Very confusing!

Perhaps, it should be Commonhold instead!
Commonhold is a type of freehold ownership.
It is designed to help flat owners get full ownership of their property, instead of having it on a lease.
Everyone within a building or block of flats comes together to form a company, known as a Commonhold Association.
That company then owns the freehold of the building.

Ash007 said:

So whole project might just collapse?

Click to expand...

Still too early to see what will happen later.
This capital control thingy only just enforced but definitely it will trigger off a chain of reactions.
Already happening now is the FC closing their China showrooms so, sales had kinda stopped.
Then there is this group of buyers of no less than 20,000 from all over in China who are caught off-guard and are unable to make new progressive payment.
Many are already forming chat groups to discuss course of action.
What actions the buyers will take and how the developer reacts and actions they take in the coming weeks will determine the fate of this project.
So, we will not seeing any more busloads of Mainlanders coming to the FC showroom for a long while.
The all the retail outlets in FC will not be get customers and will probably also "closed for renovations".
The group of local buyers should watch out vigilantly on the coming events unfolding.
The local banks which gave out loans to the buyers in FC should be now having something to worry about now.

Sometimes, the early bird catches the poisonous worms.