Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

winnipegjets · Jun 14, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
My mom has pressured me to extend my stay in Singapore. Have got the PR forms in my drawers, not brought myself to fill it in yet. I wonder why I should? Served my NS, paid my taxes, bloody gahment doesn't give a shit to those things!

Not counting on legalised pot. It doesn't affect me anyway! Stopped for a few years now. It has been outlawed the day I first smoked it, and ever since! Both in Singapore, and Canada. And now, I'm passed that age where getting stoned is a great feeling. So I'm not concerned by the pot laws at all.n Just that the battle for legalization has been underway for so long, I wonder when the authorities are going to give in and decide that busting kids for possessing pot is a waste of time and resources, and doesn't do anything to change things at ground level. Canada should really work on beefing up her military hardware. Its quite a disgrace really, the last time some servicemen spoke to the press about their Afghan mission, was a little saddened to hear them say, that the helicopters they flew were older than the pilots who flew them!!! And I don't think the Liberal government gives shit about more military spending!

Cheers!

You refer to the Sea King choppers? Military spending is not a priority. Canada is such a huge country ...with 33 million people, how much money can be allocated to defend this piece of land? So, got to prioritize mah.

It is not only the Liberals that do not prioritize military spending. The Conservatives are all talk only. What have they acquired after a decade in power? Nothing.

winnipegjets · Jun 14, 2016

Agoraphobic said:
Don't know what is filial, just do what I feel is expected of me. When I was in school, just pass exams, when I started working, just make my boss satisfied. Collect pay. Never bothered much about things I can't influence. Jobwise, it is quite good for me in Singapore. Lots of contacts built up and accumulated since primary school through NS, and work, not complaining. Just that the ,market is pathetically small, so have to look to other ASEAN countries for business. Not attracted to return to Canada in any hurry as well, realise that when I do, have to start all over again. Crossed my mind to look at USA too, but again, nothing draws me there. Actually I wouldn't mind relocating to Vietnam or Thailand, but my kid's education is another thing I have to consider. Shit, don't want to have to deal with all these decisions! For the time being, just one day at a time!

Cheers!

Send your kids to study in Canada while you remain in sinkapore. There are lots of parents from PRC that do that.

scroobal · Jun 14, 2016

Over the years Singaporeans with valid Singapore passports have produced foreign passports and there are no issues. If they wanted to be tough, they would have asked it to be declared in the disembarkation card.

Others have also stated this in this forum over the years.

nayr69sg said:
When we visited Singapore last year, we used our Canadian passports. Passed through immigration smoothly.

I wonder if it was because our Singapore passports had all expired already? They didn't ask any questions at all.

In fact we spoke in Singlish to the officer just to see if there was any reaction. Nothing.

I had prepared all our old passports, documents etc (since we were planning to renounce our Singapore citizenships anyway). So the fact that it was totally uneventful was a big anti-climax. :lol:

winnipegjets · Jun 14, 2016

octane69 said:
Have a question for about passports and immigration for my kid here. My wife is european, and our baby will be born in europe. Currently wife is here one LTDP, As i still have work n businesses here baby and her will be back in singapore for at least a few years hopefully less I have been searching for answers to how the visas and long term stay thing works in singapore but have not found any conclusive answers. I hope someone who has knowledge can help.

Mother and baby holds european passports.
And they will be here on LTDP, I do not want my child to have a
Singapore passport unless he/she can decide to revoke it.(I will
leave it up to him/her when the appropriate age comes.)

My questions are:

1. Does my child have to be registered as a Singaporean by a certain age or he can stay here on LTDP indefinitely?
2. What are the complications if any should my child be a boy about NS obligations.
3. Can he/she be registered in singapore as a singaporean after childbirth and have a singapore passport and then decide to surrender it at a certain age?

Thank you very much!

Don't ever let your son become sinkee, otherwise you will face mahfun trying to shield your kid from National Slavery.

eatshitndie · Jun 14, 2016

scroobal said:
Oh please, at various times in the past, you implied that you were OMS, from Intelligence Services, etc. Why stop now? Already pointed out that your post of today shows errors about passports expiring at age 11. Anyone can google and find out that this was removed nearly 12 years ago. Your post is in black and white for all to see. I did not write the erroneous content, you did. Looks like you served yourself on a silver platter.

you ask me to stop and you keep harping on the same matter non-stop. when did i say passports expiring at 11? just don't renew or get an nric or enjoy the benefits accorded to a sinkie citizen before 11 as the full gamut of all the painstaking process of bond, ns registration, deferment, exit permit, renunciation will go the full length.

eatshitndie · Jun 14, 2016

nayr69sg said:
When we visited Singapore last year, we used our Canadian passports. Passed through immigration smoothly.

I wonder if it was because our Singapore passports had all expired already? They didn't ask any questions at all.

In fact we spoke in Singlish to the officer just to see if there was any reaction. Nothing.

I had prepared all our old passports, documents etc (since we were planning to renounce our Singapore citizenships anyway). So the fact that it was totally uneventful was a big anti-climax. :lol:

expired they don't care as when you re-apply you cannot risk making false declaration of your canadian citizenship. you can re-apply and make a truthful declaration. i have a friend who did that and got his sinkie passport renewed. there's no harm trying and being truthful.

nayr69sg · Jun 14, 2016

eatshitndie said:
expired they don't care as when you re-apply you cannot risk making false declaration of your canadian citizenship. you can re-apply and make a truthful declaration. i have a friend who did that and got his sinkie passport renewed. there's no harm trying and being truthful.

I have already renounced my Singapore citizenship. Am very glad I am no longer a Singapore citizen. Re-apply? No thank you.

eatshitndie · Jun 15, 2016

nayr69sg said:
I have already renounced my Singapore citizenship. Am very glad I am no longer a Singapore citizen. Re-apply? No thank you.

good for you. what's the point of holding sg citizenship when you're fully entrenched in your new life in canada. i'm planning to apply for sg pr if trump does not get elected. the dems are going to give the cuntry away, implement more welfare for the lazy and entitled frauds, increase minimum wage to levels where small businesses go bust, and continue to mess up other cuntries with their arrogant, clueless and belligerent foreign policies.

Hock · Jun 15, 2016

nayr69sg said:
I have already renounced my Singapore citizenship. Am very glad I am no longer a Singapore citizen. Re-apply? No thank you.

Was it easy to renounce?

scroobal · Jun 15, 2016

Unless you want to withdraw your CPF you might as well hold on to your citizenship. There is no additional burden. If you are concerned about making payments to cover Medishield, it is a small sum and you are covered locally when you visiting Singapore especially when you are old.

I am sure Singapore will eventually go down the way of other countries. Anyway you can travel freely in and out of Singapore on your Canadian passport.

Renunciation is easy. ICA will guide you via email and point out to the forms. You can get a JP at a nearby town hall to notarise it.

Here is a bit of trivia - there are thousands of female Singaporeans around the world that cannot be accounted for locally. These are young girls that left with their families since migration began and are no liable for NS. They also could not renounce their citizenship when their parents did because by law they could only renounce at 21. Many have forgotten. Formal tracking began not because of migration but because Chiam See Ting demanded that education be made compulsory and parliament enacted the law. So MOE began tracking all kids and subsequently education subsidies would follow. Still hear stories from acquaintances in MOE and CPF of the staggering numbers plus grandparents continuing receive their mail from MOE locally.

We all agree that this is hidden and potential talent pool and goes to explain why the Govt is coy about stamping its authority at immigration counter.

Don't be surprised that a campaign is launched to bring them back in mid career with interesting terms

Hock said:
Was it easy to renounce?

Charlie99 · Jun 15, 2016

Hello [scroobal],

You said:

"Unless you want to withdraw your CPF you might as well hold on to your citizenship. There is no additional burden. If you are concerned about making payments to cover Medishield, it is a small sum and you are covered locally when you visiting Singapore especially when you are old.

I am sure Singapore will eventually go down the way of other countries. Anyway you can travel freely in and out of Singapore on your Canadian passport."

Do you mean that the SG government is now closing one eye to those individuals who retained their Singapore citizenship (or did not renounce it),
and returning to SG with their Canadian passports?

Is it not easier to travel in and out of SG with a SG passport, but hang on to the Canadian passport for travelling to "western" countries?

winnipegjets · Jun 15, 2016

eatshitndie said:
good for you. what's the point of holding sg citizenship when you're fully entrenched in your new life in canada. i'm planning to apply for sg pr if trump does not get elected. the dems are going to give the cuntry away, implement more welfare for the lazy and entitled frauds, increase minimum wage to levels where small businesses go bust, and continue to mess up other cuntries with their arrogant, clueless and belligerent foreign policies.

If Democrats take over the House, Senate and Presidency, I want to move to US. Can give me your Yankee citizenship in exchange for my, highly valued by you, sinkee citizenship?

winnipegjets · Jun 15, 2016

Charlie99 said:
Hello [scroobal],

You said:

"Unless you want to withdraw your CPF you might as well hold on to your citizenship. There is no additional burden. If you are concerned about making payments to cover Medishield, it is a small sum and you are covered locally when you visiting Singapore especially when you are old.

I am sure Singapore will eventually go down the way of other countries. Anyway you can travel freely in and out of Singapore on your Canadian passport."

Do you mean that the SG government is now closing one eye to those individuals who retained their Singapore citizenship (or did not renounce it),
and returning to SG with their Canadian passports?

Is it not easier to travel in and out of SG with a SG passport, but hang on to the Canadian passport for travelling to "western" countries?

It is easy to travel to SG with any western country passport.

octane69 · Jun 15, 2016

scroobal said:
Yours is a complicated arrangement as your primary work and residence is here and you are Singaporean. Your first issue will crop up when you apply LTDP for your son. That will determine what takes place thereafter. The Govt's philosophy is to ensure that parents do not structure a child's status to avoid NS. The ones that are granted exemption or are deemed not liable for NS and where one parent is a Singaporean and that parent has applied for migration or is holding a foreign resident/working visa and would be eligible to gain citizenship in that country. A Singaporean merely married to a foreigner is not deemed as such.

To provide context - cases such as yours are not uncommon even among Singapore scholars who while studying overseas for their post grad have kids that are born overseas and hold citizenship overseas. The end result is they are still liable for NS as the govt does not issue LTDP for such kids.

The operating mechanism is the ability to show evidence of migration for the family including yourself before the kid turns 13 years of age.

I understand that its going to be complicated once and if i have a boy, for gals its much easier lol... i do know of a couple who husband is PR and wife singaporean,they were staying overseas for the first 4 years. currently their son is staying in singapore on a student pass, he is 7years old now... not sure if he can continue indefinitely on student pass before mindef gets wind of it. i would like to do that same.. just that my baby will have to come to singapore soon after birth...

scroobal · Jun 15, 2016

Hi Charlie

The approach has been the same for years. No change. Singapore immigration does not bother whatever passport you use including in situation where you have valid SG passport.

As I have started before - there is no Singapore law that prohibits holding dual or multiple citizenship. So it is not an offence. There is also no offence to hold a foreign passport, certificate of identity or related documentation.

The issues I am aware of are those who have returned to Singapore to work and also have previously used foreign passport to enter and exit. ICA have sent them nice letters about a year into their working life that their records show that they have entered and exited Singapore using foreign passport and then encouraged them to renounce.

Singapore will be the net loser in the global space if they are too harsh and work against the global trend. After all, those who qualify to migrate are those who have above average qualities if not they will not admitted into first world countries.

Yes to your last point - use your Sg passport for entry and exit into Singapore and the foreign passport for other countries. Avoid complications. Sg passport might still be handy for some countries where Canadian passport require visa etc.

Charlie99 said:
Hello [scroobal],

You said:

"Unless you want to withdraw your CPF you might as well hold on to your citizenship. There is no additional burden. If you are concerned about making payments to cover Medishield, it is a small sum and you are covered locally when you visiting Singapore especially when you are old.

I am sure Singapore will eventually go down the way of other countries. Anyway you can travel freely in and out of Singapore on your Canadian passport."

Do you mean that the SG government is now closing one eye to those individuals who retained their Singapore citizenship (or did not renounce it),
and returning to SG with their Canadian passports?

Is it not easier to travel in and out of SG with a SG passport, but hang on to the Canadian passport for travelling to "western" countries?

Charlie99 · Jun 15, 2016

What will ICA say, if say, an individual, declares on his application to renew his SG passport, that he holds a another passport (that is he is a citizen of another country)?
Will ICA ask him to renounce one?

eatshitndie · Jun 15, 2016

winnipegjets said:
If Democrats take over the House, Senate and Presidency, I want to move to US. Can give me your Yankee citizenship in exchange for my, highly valued by you, sinkee citizenship?

shooting at walmart today. bring along a bullet-proof vest and kevlar helmet.

nayr69sg · Jun 15, 2016

Hock said:
Was it easy to renounce?

What do you mean by "easy"?

They have the forms to fill. Quite a few details, also ask about you whole family, ask about your average annual income for every job you held etc.

Fill the forms, submit to ICA. I was visiting Singapore so I handed in the forms personally and signed the documents in their presence hence I did not require a Notary Public.

Takes some time for ICA to process the renunciation. We submitted the forms personally signed all the documents and waived the "cooling off" period July 9 and got confirmation of renunciation 20 Oct. I have no idea why it takes so long. I mean seriously can ICA "refuse" to allow us to renounce our citizenships?

Applying to withdraw CPF is the next step.

If the only reason why you want to keep your Singapore passport is because you are worried about VISA issues, then you are probably some kind of businessman who has to travel a lot. Otherwise who the heck cares about those countries that Singapore passports allow easier entry to than a foreign passport? They are probably countries in South East Asia and China.

For the matter, if you are so concerned about the Singapore passport then don't apply for the foreign citizenship. Just stay a PR. Many people apply for citizenship because they want their kids to be citizens of the new country. In particular the boys because of NS.

Singapore can keep its citizenship and passports I don't give a damn.

Oh and for the matter there is a "cost" to owning the Singapore citizenship now. It is called Medishield Life.

Over 40-50 years it is not going to be a small sum in the end (I am sure the premiums will rise with inflation or as Temasick goes more broke)

Hock · Jun 19, 2016

nayr69sg said:
What do you mean by "easy"?

They have the forms to fill. Quite a few details, also ask about you whole family, ask about your average annual income for every job you held etc.

Fill the forms, submit to ICA. I was visiting Singapore so I handed in the forms personally and signed the documents in their presence hence I did not require a Notary Public.

Takes some time for ICA to process the renunciation. We submitted the forms personally signed all the documents and waived the "cooling off" period July 9 and got confirmation of renunciation 20 Oct. I have no idea why it takes so long. I mean seriously can ICA "refuse" to allow us to renounce our citizenships?

Applying to withdraw CPF is the next step.

If the only reason why you want to keep your Singapore passport is because you are worried about VISA issues, then you are probably some kind of businessman who has to travel a lot. Otherwise who the heck cares about those countries that Singapore passports allow easier entry to than a foreign passport? They are probably countries in South East Asia and China.

For the matter, if you are so concerned about the Singapore passport then don't apply for the foreign citizenship. Just stay a PR. Many people apply for citizenship because they want their kids to be citizens of the new country. In particular the boys because of NS.

Singapore can keep its citizenship and passports I don't give a damn.

Oh and for the matter there is a "cost" to owning the Singapore citizenship now. It is called Medishield Life.

Over 40-50 years it is not going to be a small sum in the end (I am sure the premiums will rise with inflation or as Temasick goes more broke)

Thanks Doc for your information.

snowbird99 · Jul 20, 2016

Scroobal, could I ask what would happen if I ever stepped foot back into Singapore? I have a Canadian citizenship but I couldn't renounce Singapore citizenship because ICA replied Mindef would not allow me to, and would have to go back to face the music (3 year jail and/or $10K fine) before they let me renounce. I emigrated from Singapore at 17 with my family and did not serve NS. I am now over 40. My Canadian passport still says my Singaporean name.

Would ICA actually arrest me if I were to drop by just for a 2-week visit using my Canadian passport? My Canadian MP has advised me to stay away from Singapore until they change the law on NS defaulters.

Dual Citizenship / NS Obligations / HDB Flats and Migration

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (Inf)

Super Moderator

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (Inf)

New Member

Alfrescian

Alfrescian (Inf)

Alfrescian (Inf)

Super Moderator

Alfrescian

Alfrescian

Similar threads