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Chitchat Leaving bags in MRT an offence - What law?

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
First they charged a PRC who pleaded guilty and now 2 Bangladeshis have been arrested. All three had no intention to cause alarm or mischief or nuisance. PRC chap household items, the other 2 had household and food items. Are we going overboard with this.

Seriously, a warning is more than sufficient. If Nancy from RGS, staying at District 10 left her hello kitty bag to go to the toilet, will they arrest her? I am sure others have left bags before to go to the toilet.

Why is the law society or any NGO not saying other things.

http://m.todayonline.com/two-men-ar...arm-after-leaving-bags-unattended-mrt-station

Two men arrested for causing public alarm after leaving bags unattended at MRT station
Published 7:08 PM, MAY 26, 2017
Updated 8:09 PM, May 26, 2017


SINGAPORE – Two men aged 25 and 27 were arrested for an offence of Public Nuisance after they left three bags unattended at Aljunied MRT station on Friday (May 26) morning.

TODAY understands that the two men are from Bangladesh.
The police said that officers were alerted to the three unattended bags at the concourse of Aljunied MRT station at 9.52am.
In a statement, SMRT said the unattended bags were found during a regular security check. "Our station staff observed three unattended bags at Exit B of Aljunied MRT station around 9.45am this (Friday) morning. Our staff immediately alerted TransComm officers to the incident," said Mr Patrick Nathan, Vice President for Corporate Information and Communications.
Officers from the Bedok Police Division and Public Transport Security Command, with the assistance of SMRT staff, traced and detained the owners of the bags at Aljunied MRT station at about 10.15 am.

The three bags were later established to contain only food and household items.
Preliminary investigations revealed that the two men had intentionally left their bags at the concourse area while they went to the toilet at the station. Investigations are still ongoing.

In Friday’s release, the Police said they treat all security threats seriously and will not hesitate to take action against anyone who intentionally cause public alarm.

Anyone found guilty of causing public nuisance can be punished with a fine of up to S$1,000.
Earlier in April, 39-year-old Chinese national Wang Jianpo was also arrested for leaving a blue luggage bag unattended at Hougang MRT station, causing the station to be briefly shut down. The bag was later established to contain only household items.
He was charged on May 17 with causing public nuisance, and indicated that he will plead guilty to the offence.
In another incident on April 19, Woodleigh MRT station was also shut down after SBS Transit staff found the white substance suspicious and alerted the police.

The suspicious substance was later found to be flour, left by the Seletar Hash House Harriers running group who were marking a trail for their evening run.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Same with horror stories of airport security officials who detain entire family because dad was overheard joking that "that airline hostess is the BOMB!".

Jokes aside, paranoia helps no one. It only uses up valuable resources that could have been put to better use, for example, filming Chee soon juan's speech at Hong lim.

Once u allow paranoia and stupidity to take over, basically you are doing what the terrorists want.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Same with horror stories of airport security officials who detain entire family because dad was overheard joking that "that airline hostess is the BOMB!".

Jokes aside, paranoia helps no one. It only uses up valuable resources that could have been put to better use, for example, filming Chee soon juan's speech at Hong lim.

Once u allow paranoia and stupidity to take over, basically you are doing what the terrorists want.

Better to be paranoid or have a bomb go off and substantially more resources allocated for security not to mention the economic fallout? Just catch a few nobodys and make an example out of them! Ancient Chinese wisdom sir. :smile:
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am certain the instruction must have come from the top. Its an abuse of power. I am also surprised that AG has allowed this again.

I am certain this is not paranoia but to show to the World that they ready to handle terrorists with a zero tolerance approach. In their mind, its strong leadership and resolve. I have come across very senior people in Govt that have suggested draconian and bizarre measures but there were thankfully sane peers and bosses that said no.





Same with horror stories of airport security officials who detain entire family because dad was overheard joking that "that airline hostess is the BOMB!".

Jokes aside, paranoia helps no one. It only uses up valuable resources that could have been put to better use, for example, filming Chee soon juan's speech at Hong lim.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
First they charged a PRC who pleaded guilty and now 2 Bangladeshis have been arrested. All three had no intention to cause alarm or mischief or nuisance. PRC chap household items, the other 2 had household and food items. Are we going overboard with this.

Seriously, a warning is more than sufficient. If Nancy from RGS, staying at District 10 left her hello kitty bag to go to the toilet, will they arrest her? I am sure others have left bags before to go to the toilet.

Why is the law society or any NGO not saying other things.

'Guilty act' and 'guilty mind' must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

In the cases you highlighted, 'guilty mind' is not there. For the sake of convenience and closure, yes, a warning to be given.

SMRT and SPF may have over-reacted. Resulting from this, excessive manpower utilised. And since excessive manpower used, die-die must charge in court.

But the same SOP will not apply to all. That is where double standards come in. Always the case. Think Woffles and the recent drug case (Jopie's Son). Many more.
 

tyudm

Alfrescian
Loyal
This shows how powerful terrorists are. Shoes and belts stripped for scanning. No liquid exceeding 100ml, no paper cutter, finger nail cutter when boarding .....etc and now this.

Osama bin Ladin is the greatest law maker without having to legislate

It's a paranoid all over the world.
 
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johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
This shows how powerful terrorists are. Shoes and belts stripped for scanning. No liquid exceeding 100ml, no paper cutter, finger nail cutter when boarding .....etc and now this.

Osama bin Ladin is the greatest law maker without having to legislate

It's a paranoid all over the world.

In Spore you don't have to take off your shoes or do a body scan, just go through a metal detector. However when you go through the airport security check in Bangkok this is normal.
Spore has not had a bombing yet so I think it's more of a wayang mentality unlike in Thailand where security is taken more seriously.
 

salim

Alfrescian
Loyal
>> Why is the law society or any NGO not saying other things.

By the 1986 Legal Profession Amendment Bill, the Law Society has been effectively neutered.
No comments unless asked.
 

griffin

Alfrescian
Loyal
If I am at a MRT station carrying an item like food but need to use the toilet, can I leave it at the Passenger Control and pick it up later?
 

po2wq

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
y dun dey put up a sign telling commuters not 2 anyhow leave their bags unattended, otherwise, fine $3000? ...


so, sextending tis rule, u oso cannot anyhow use ur bags 2 chope seats @ any hawker center, fudcot or restaurants ... otherwise, can call polis oredi ... hey, gotta make polis 2 wok harder, u noe! ...
 
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GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If I am at a MRT station carrying an item like food but need to use the toilet, can I leave it at the Passenger Control and pick it up later?

Not likely they will entertain you. Also, you may not have the time to locate the said place if it's an 'emergency' case. Urine and shit don't wait for you all the time.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Fighting a case in court is expensive. Even if one's case is winnable.

Looking at 6-8k minimum (if Super lucky) on the assumption it's 1-2 days in court. More likely 10k minimum.

So it makes sense for some people to conveniently plead guilty if the fine is 1-2k and no mandatory jail term and/or caning.

Don't forget the mental stress and inconvenience involved. Probably need to wait for at least 6 months before trial date.

That means going to court with bailor at least 5-6 times to have bail extended during Mention dates.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Exactly. Railroading people who have little education in a foreign land is exploitive conduct. As pointed out, I am sure there is double standards in play. This is not bold leadership when it is on the back of some poor labourers who do not have the means to fight back.

Any lawyer out of law school can get them off and no magistrate would convict them if they went to trial.

Maybe MRT staff can be empowered to issue summons similar to traffic fines where a small fine only needs to be at one of the payment machines.

These guys have got away bullying people for so long that they do not know how to treat another human being.

'Guilty act' and 'guilty mind' must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

In the cases you highlighted, 'guilty mind' is not there. For the sake of convenience and closure, yes, a warning to be given.

SMRT and SPF may have over-reacted. Resulting from this, excessive manpower utilised. And since excessive manpower used, die-die must charge in court.

But the same SOP will not apply to all. That is where double standards come in. Always the case. Think Woffles and the recent drug case (Jopie's Son). Many more.
 

rambo22

Alfrescian
Loyal
what if I threw a big dark color plastic bag
filled with many dirty newspapers but it landed next
to the waste bin

like this got salah or not
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Maybe MRT staff can be empowered to issue summons similar to traffic fines where a small fine only needs to be at one of the payment machines.

Unlikely. Once police resources are activated, unless you are a somebody, they will charge you in court.

This is similar to attempted suicide cases. Usually a police warning is given. But when SCDF resources are activated, that bugger will be charged in court.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its the sad truth, griped by terror. However we have petty minded leaders who wanted to use foreign labourer to pass a message. Sure we can have tight security but willy nilly finding a convenient law is not the way.

This is the country where a rich lady hit and dragged a pedestrian and drove all the way home and never spent a day in jail. This is the same country where an SPH editor who killed a pillion while talking on the phone and again look at the sentence.

This shows how powerful terrorists are. Shoes and belts stripped for scanning. No liquid exceeding 100ml, no paper cutter, finger nail cutter when boarding .....etc and now this.

Osama bin Ladin is the greatest law maker without having to legislate

It's a paranoid all over the world.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I don't think its a good argument for the state to charge them in court. A summons will do.

Unlikely. Once police resources are activated, unless you are a somebody, they will charge you in court.

This is similar to attempted suicide cases. Usually a police warning is given. But when SCDF resources are activated, that bugger will be charged in court.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its quite a risk as the bag handed over can be an explosive item and it requires scanning prior to taking it. The general principle is to ask the person to take their bag and items along with them.


If I am at a MRT station carrying an item like food but need to use the toilet, can I leave it at the Passenger Control and pick it up later?
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Its the sad truth, griped by terror. However we have petty minded leaders who wanted to use foreign labourer to pass a message. Sure we can have tight security but willy nilly finding a convenient law is not the way.

This is the country where a rich lady hit and dragged a pedestrian and drove all the way home and never spent a day in jail. This is the same country where an SPH editor who killed a pillion while talking on the phone and again look at the sentence.

We are a meritocratic society sir. One's riches and position proves merit, and just dues shall be meted accordingly.
 
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