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Thread: Forest City

  1. #721
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    Default Re: Forest City

    Why take the risk with China developers; when there are so many nice project all over JB done by Malaysia developer?

    Johor Sultan words already throw them under the bus. What other hints do one need to understand the difficulty this project will face in the future.

    China buyers backing off.
    Developer have fund transfer problem.
    Banks whom loan them may sue first to cut losses.
    All bad publicity. (Mahathir)
    Chance of project been abandon.
    Sultan's bad impression.

    Time will tell what will happen; but why take risk with China developer?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
    Still too early to see what will happen later..
    有钱难买早知道。
    千金难买少年穷。
    万世修得千金富。
    万贯不过三代福。

  2. #722
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    Default Re: Forest City

    I've already said many times, the Chinks are the scums in this world. They created the attractions and now their government created the shit for them and their buyers. Does their government gives a hoot? No.
    In the name of The PAP we will always trust. Only ungrateful and betraying Sinkies will detest The PAP. I will always be grateful to The PAP for continuously screwing the Sinkies 24/7 without having me to even lift a finger myself.

  3. #723
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    Default Re: Forest City

    Quote Originally Posted by shctaw View Post
    I warn everyone few years ago, that when one buy property in a country; one should just stick to that country developers.

    So one will not get affected by factors affected by another country policies.

    When I buy in Singapore; I only choose CDL, Keppeland, Capitaland.

    When I buy in Malaysia; I choose MB, SP Setia and Astaka.

    Now I start buying in Vietnam and my only 2 developer will only be Vinhomes or Vinaland.
    Keppel and Capitaland are both available in Vietnam but I will never choose them.
    Great suggestion and good point drawn. Underlying explanation would be: local developers target on local and know what local wants...meaning, the demand for their project would more likely to be solid (钢需), while foreign developer will bring in foreigner fryer that want to flip or want to rent.... careless about those who really want to stay.

    Quote Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
    If really much of the some 10,000 Chinese buyers decide to quit from the sales, you think the development of this project can still proceed as scheduled?
    Although the mega buyers/seller tussle may take some time to settle and if this really happen, I'm very sure local banks would not be too keen to offer anyone a loan for the unsold units of this project.
    1. I believe it will continue 2. 14k units sold, i believe quite a number of them starting to regret...but will not be too many. 3.Local banks as in malaysia banks? haha nope, they dont involve with loan to PRC chinese. 4. Malaysian want to buy, local banks will unwilling to give out loan unless with more assurance like collateral or higher lending margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash007 View Post
    In terms of capital control, I hear rumours something will happen on July 1st. It's the foreign reserve that the Chinese government is worried about.
    What rumours? I only know Trump's gov by April will decide whether China is a currency manipulator country. So China gov is eagerly stopping the fall of yuan further, to avoid further agitate trump, at the same time control capital outflow and using reserve to buy in yuan. China always quite lax on capital control, recent capital control seem like more of a political move.

    I gut feeling tell me, after April derisk-ed, yuan will fall further to 7+ to 1 usd. Capital outflow is good to their export sector.
    Quote Originally Posted by shctaw View Post
    China buyers cannot pay their instalment is small problem.

    The biggest problem is the China developer cannot bring in the fund to complete the project.

    R&F and Forrest City is "so call" buy 1 get 1 free project. They can give out condos in Malaysia FOC; you don't think they will just leave without completing their "over promise".
    1. Buy 1 free 1, remain unproven. 2. Country Garden current corp bond rating is Bb1....possible solution (one of the many, but this practise seem quite commonly used): 1. collect money in yuan in china from buyers and 2. sent out money from china using corporate name, as a way to repay bond debt.
    China capital control do not ban company to use the money as debt repayment. Good example is Apple issuing bond to pay dividend to shareholders because bringing money back to US subject to high taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash007 View Post
    So whole project might just collapse?
    I hope it collapse, should be a good thing for Johorean. Property bubble burst mean economy inefficiency happen as the money being used in unproductive purposes. That is what being taught, but if you think deeper, actually still depend on situation.
    Anyway, will be a big slap on sultan, and state gov face....and they have to put HSR iskandar puteri station closer to FC, afterall, not that bad too.

    Quote Originally Posted by shctaw View Post
    It's like treason to believe Forest City 'lies', Sultan tells Johoreans


    Johor's Sultan Ibrahim Iskandar has likened Johoreans who believe "lies" peddled on the Forest City development in Pasir Gudang, to individuals who committed treason.

    "For Johoreans who are influenced, it is like they have committed treason.

    The Pasir Gudang development on four reclaimed land islands is fodder for political debate, with the opposition questioning the sale of freehold land to foreigners.
    Malaysiakini reporting standard..... since when FC is in Pasir Gudang?
    Quote Originally Posted by snowbird View Post

    Leasehold - You own the property and its land for the length of your lease agreement.
    Freehold - You own the property outright, including the land it’s built on.

    So, here you have a situation where the buyer actually bought a 99 years lease property but was advertised as freehold!
    And you have the property owner on leasehold of 99 years but with strata title with freehold status!
    However upon expiry of the lease, if the land reverts back to the state, then the land lease is actually leasehold and never freehold.
    So, who is the real freehold owner of the land in FC?
    Very confusing!
    No need to be confused la, the more you read from malaysia sotong ministers, the more blur you will be. Like you quoted malaysia second trading minister about Petronas do not beg Aramco to stay. It is funny to see you quoting on malaysian minister to make your point...they dont even know what they say.

    Truth: Najib told the wrong thing about leasehold land. The land is freehold. Then Mahathir went to FC, point at the banner about freehold writing. Then another malaysia sotong minister from Johor stand out to defend his master, saying the land is leasehold, but strata title is freehold....which make no legal sense.

    Freehold land or not has nothing to do with sovereignty rights, this is what mahathir trying to fools ppl that do not know anything about law, he is doctor by the way. Malaysia can convert leasehold to freehold, legally, I did that before with on one of my house, not that hard, just time consuming.

    In malaysia, my understanding is that, they do not take back your ppty easily after your leasehold expire, you can extend your 99 lease again with some payment....unless you are foreigner, then situation can be diff. Our group (not company group, just a group of 4) did take advantage on a singapore company (one of the sg bank's parent company, i wont disclose the name, but start with O end with C) after acresss of land lease expire (99 years). Blocked the renew application and we buy on cheap. Old time singaporean allowed to own agri land in malaysia, and if they are on leasehold, very danger, no jalan to find ppl help you, after 99 years, will all kena makan. Delicious!

    Quote Originally Posted by snowbird View Post
    Still too early to see what will happen later.
    Many are already forming chat groups to discuss course of action.
    What actions the buyers will take and how the developer reacts and actions they take in the coming weeks will determine the fate of this project.
    So, we will not seeing any more busloads of Mainlanders coming to the FC showroom for a long while.
    The all the retail outlets in FC will not be get customers and will probably also "closed for renovations".
    The group of local buyers should watch out vigilantly on the coming events unfolding.
    The local banks which gave out loans to the buyers in FC should be now having something to worry about now.
    Local banks in malaysia dont give out loan to china buyers. A lot of them pay by cash. And if banks kena, then more likely it is from china.
    No more busloads of mainlanders? When i got time, i will check again. Dont use malaysian or singaporean common sense to understand them. The more you block, the more bueh tahan want to buy feeling will come out. Hunger marketing will make those with money more rushing to buy.
    Some of the retails already open back...but seem like no more focusing on FC liao, should have change strategy, make it like "you not rich enough, we wont layan you", hunger them a few weeks before tell them to join FC trip after some difficulty in finding some extra units remain unsold.
    Quote Originally Posted by enjoylife77 View Post
    Sometimes, the early bird catches the poisonous worms.
    Greenfield project certainly must danger. Those might not be early bird.....they are early worms. 早起的虫儿被鸟吃。
    Quote Originally Posted by shctaw View Post
    Why take the risk with China developers; when there are so many nice project all over JB done by Malaysia developer?

    Johor Sultan words already throw them under the bus. What other hints do one need to understand the difficulty this project will face in the future.

    China buyers backing off.
    Developer have fund transfer problem.
    Banks whom loan them may sue first to cut losses.
    All bad publicity. (Mahathir)
    Chance of project been abandon.
    Sultan's bad impression.

    Time will tell what will happen; but why take risk with China developer?
    Errr... dont talk like FC failure has nothing to do with sultan. You know the shares arrangement for FC? FC failure, sultan will lose face and lose money... then they will have to do more to save this project, whatever it takes, closer HSR station, foreigner only casino, special custom to enter malaysia CIQ, harbour. Im bad, i do hope it fail, and see how they are going to save this project.

    I think dont oversimplify the issue between foreign or local developers. Local developers also not quite solid guarantee de, some small scale even runaway. If china developer target on malaysian, then malaysian would rather give more trust to china developers...for their quality and efficiency. Their oversea project quality always much better than the one in their home country.
    Country garden central park, just opposite Hatten capital 21, will be 100% targets on local, building much sensible apartment price ~RM500 psf.
    https://theedgeproperty.wordpress.co...f-first-phase/

    Why they build there? Because larkin bus station and future public transport hub will be just located at the opposite of CG central garden. <<my intel. Many ppl looking down on capital 21...but actually it might locate at the gold pot area.
    Quote Originally Posted by winners View Post
    I've already said many times, the Chinks are the scums in this world. They created the attractions and now their government created the shit for them and their buyers. Does their government gives a hoot? No.
    Exactly bcoz of china gov, they want to park their money to safer place. First, they have no place to invest, china sharemarket eat ppl de. Second, invest in ppty, china residential only 60 years lease, no such thing as "freehold" in china.
    Last edited by rotikok; Yesterday at 07:34 PM.

  4. #724
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    Default Re: Forest City

    http://zzhz.zjol.com.cn/system/2017/...21473882.shtml
    碧桂园杨国强:“森林城市”销售微不足道
    2017年03月23日 16:03:02 浙江在线-住在杭州网
    【摘要】碧桂园主席兼董事杨国强表示,马来西亚“森林城市”项目销售贡献占公司总量“微不足道”,有能力完 成项目。

      碧桂园控股有限公司(2007.HK,下称碧桂园)主席兼执行董事杨国强3月23日在香港业绩会上表示 ,马来西亚“森林城市”项目销售贡献占公司总量“微不足道”,公司有能力完成项目,并一直守规 守法。

      针对近日有关“森林城市”项目因涉外汇管制暂停国内销售的传闻,杨国强在业绩会上表示,“森林城市”的 定位为未来世界城市榜样,将有几十万人居住,项目面向全世界销售,采取以销定产的策略,且项目销售贡献占公 司整体总量“微不足道”,相信碧桂园有足够能力做好该项目。

      对于如何处理已经支付部分款项的内地购房者的问题,杨国强表示,这属于个案,不方便评论,需要再作了解 。他强调,公司一直守规守法。

      碧桂园目前在马来西亚有4个项目,在澳大利亚及印度尼西亚各有1个项目。杨国强指,碧桂园今后的海外项 目都将针对当地市场。

      2017年1月起,个人购汇时除了需要遵守5万美元的额度,还需要填写《个人购汇申请书》,明确提供有 关证明材料解释购买外汇的用途。申请书明令禁止购买外汇用于“境外买房”。

      杨国强表示,碧桂园暂时没有赴港投地的计划,也没有回归A股上市的计划。他说,近期内地房地产调控政策 将维护市场稳定,对碧桂园的短期影响较小,长期看有积极影响。

      碧桂园2017年的销售目标为4000亿元。碧桂园2016年合同销售金额按年上升120%至3088 亿元,合同销售面积按年上升74%至3.7亿平方米。股东应占溢利为115.2亿元,同比增长 24.2%。

    FC project is the most revenue generating project last year in China, ranked 1 (i dont know why they compare it with other project in china). Among many projects launched by CG, this single project is most profitable. China ppty market actually heavily control and monitor by china gov. China do not lack of land, but they heavily control the land supply, esp top tier cities like the top 4. And their profit margin (CG, greenland, wanda, evergrande, vanke etc etc) heavily squeezed by land price (china gov take away).

    This is what i think. FC project, units that they sold, due to high profit margin, already can cover their cost, further land reclamation to use as golf course and able to handle excesses units built. Failure in the form of ghost town ie units sold but low occupany remain highly likely....sibeh confirm it will be ghost town. But abandon project very unlikely. FC shareholders, the sultan, will not let it happen.
    Last edited by rotikok; Yesterday at 07:48 PM.

  5. #725
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    Default Re: Forest City

    The China capital control will also hit real estate markets where China buyers are significant.

  6. #726
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    Default Re: Forest City

    Quote Originally Posted by rotikok View Post
    http://zzhz.zjol.com.cn/system/2017/...21473882.shtml
    碧桂园杨国强:“森林城市”销售微不足道
    2017年03月23日 16:03:02 浙江在线-住在杭州网
    【摘要】碧桂园主席兼董事杨国强表示,马来西亚“森林城市”项目销售贡献占公司总量“微不足道”,有能力完 成项目。

      碧桂园控股有限公司(2007.HK,下称碧桂园)主席兼执行董事杨国强3月23日在香港业绩会上表示 ,马来西亚“森林城市”项目销售贡献占公司总量“微不足道”,公司有能力完成项目,并一直守规 守法。

      针对近日有关“森林城市”项目因涉外汇管制暂停国内销售的传闻,杨国强在业绩会上表示,“森林城市”的 定位为未来世界城市榜样,将有几十万人居住,项目面向全世界销售,采取以销定产的策略,且项目销售贡献占公 司整体总量“微不足道”,相信碧桂园有足够能力做好该项目。

      对于如何处理已经支付部分款项的内地购房者的问题,杨国强表示,这属于个案,不方便评论,需要再作了解 。他强调,公司一直守规守法。

      碧桂园目前在马来西亚有4个项目,在澳大利亚及印度尼西亚各有1个项目。杨国强指,碧桂园今后的海外项 目都将针对当地市场。

      2017年1月起,个人购汇时除了需要遵守5万美元的额度,还需要填写《个人购汇申请书》,明确提供有 关证明材料解释购买外汇的用途。申请书明令禁止购买外汇用于“境外买房”。

      杨国强表示,碧桂园暂时没有赴港投地的计划,也没有回归A股上市的计划。他说,近期内地房地产调控政策 将维护市场稳定,对碧桂园的短期影响较小,长期看有积极影响。

      碧桂园2017年的销售目标为4000亿元。碧桂园2016年合同销售金额按年上升120%至3088 亿元,合同销售面积按年上升74%至3.7亿平方米。股东应占溢利为115.2亿元,同比增长 24.2%。

    FC project is the most revenue generating project last year in China, ranked 1 (i dont know why they compare it with other project in china). Among many projects launched by CG, this single project is most profitable. China ppty market actually heavily control and monitor by china gov. China do not lack of land, but they heavily control the land supply, esp top tier cities like the top 4. And their profit margin (CG, greenland, wanda, evergrande, vanke etc etc) heavily squeezed by land price (china gov take away).

    This is what i think. FC project, units that they sold, due to high profit margin, already can cover their cost, further land reclamation to use as golf course and able to handle excesses units built. Failure in the form of ghost town ie units sold but low occupany remain highly likely....sibeh confirm it will be ghost town. But abandon project very unlikely. FC shareholders, the sultan, will not let it happen.
    Whatever profits FC claimed to have made from the sales are all UNREALIZED profits, its only in the books and only on papers!!
    Profits in real terms comes only after the full completion of the project and handed over and all monies, including the retention money are fully collected.
    What they are talking about now is only a projected profit for FC.

    The problem now is not localized one but due to a policy in China.
    How much the Royal partner or even the state govt. can do to savage the situation and whether anything can be done, we don't know.
    The main problem in FC is simply because of the high percentage of Chinese buyers, which is about 90% of the total sales, who are unable to make future payment due to the capital control.
    We don't know how much this group of buyers had paid up.
    If the initial payment is not much, many of these Chinese buyer would rather lose this money and quit to avoid trouble, with many fearing being blacklisted.
    So, the outcome of this episode depends very much on the numbers of quitters.

    If the numbers of quitters is high, then this project is as good as gone.
    FC needs to find an equivalent number of buyers (20,000) outside China for "replacement" immediately to get the project going.
    Otherwise, FC will have problems to continue with just only about 1,000 non Chinese buyers.
    FC had already put in lots of money to purchase the land and doing the reclamation works and showrooms plus extensive nation wide marketing in China.
    If they are using borrowed money, any delay in construction of current and future phases will result in high holding cost, with interest running into tens of millions.
    If they are using own cash, then any delays will unduly locked up the money and its the future opportunity cost they are losing.

    To date, the total construction work for the committed sold units is still very little.
    Should FC decides to stop now, the damage is still not so high.
    As for the CG project in Danga Bay which is almost 80 to 85% completed, they should quickly complete it and handover and collect all their dues and realize their profits, provided the percentage of Chinese buyers is not too high.

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