Opposition unity is a madman's notion

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Sorry to have to keep repeating GoldenDragon's words but I have come to acknowedge this simple fact, and some here still do not.

Wwabbit has written a very good post and I'm reprinting it here to avoid getting lost.

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Before GE2011, I would agree that the opposition should cooperate to avoid 3 corner fights since there is still plenty of pie leftover where PAP has been receiving walkovers.

Now things have changed, our opposition parties have been growing stronger and there isn't enough pie left. It is time we put an end to the horse-tradng and allow natural selection to take its course. The strong opposition parties should be allowed to survive while the weak ones need to be culled, and the only way to confirm who is weak and who is strong is to pit them against each other in an election, and allow the electorates themselves to decide instead of the party leaders deciding via horse-trading.

Unfortunately, there is a chance that the opposition may lose a contituency or two in a 3-corner fight with PAP winning with under 50% of the votes. I believe, however, that this would be a worthwhile sacrifice in the long run to strengthen the strong opposition parties. Ideally, I thought that we should have more 3-corner fights in GE2011 in the consituencies where the opposition wouldn't have won anyway. It was a lost opportunity for the opposition parties to compete against each other without costing the opposition any seats.

It's a real pity the Moulmein-Kallang 3-corner fight didn't go through. [sarcasm]Now we will never know which is the stronger opposition party, between Worker's Party and National Solidarity Party.[/sarcasm]

 

[zhihau]

Sorry to have to keep repeating GoldenDragon's words but I have come to acknowedge this simple fact, and some here still do not.

bro,
me felt that the most important thing is to wrestle the 2/3 majority from the PAP. once that is in place, the evolution of the political scene can take its natural course.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

bro,
me felt that the most important thing is to wrestle the 2/3 majority from the PAP. once that is in place, the evolution of the political scene can take its natural course.

The road to this goal is not a straight one. It is curvy and lined with pits. Only the streetwise will be able to adapt.

 

[zhihau]

Only the streetwise will be able to adapt.

30 seats minimum... a dream too far fetched?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

30 seats minimum... a dream too far fetched?

Nope, not too far fetched. We will all live to see the day. Its just that growing up in a big house, we can afford to give each other leeway for the sake of "unity". After we have grown up, we must now compete in the real world, and that sometimes means asserting ourselves in ways that we did not previously. Do you get what I am saying?

 

[zhihau]

Do you get what I am saying?

absolutely, we may even see the rise of a generation of MPs: new citizen MPs

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Yeah... sure.. all the other opposition parties in the world which go into unity and coalition are all filled with madman! LOL!

Well, seems that all these madman in Malaysia are doing very well, already deprived the ruling party 2/3 majority in such a short period of time while our sane man here still struggling with that 8 seats in parliament but thinking how super they are... madness is really relative.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[yellowarse]

Yeah... sure.. all the other opposition parties in the world which go into unity and coalition are all filled with madman! LOL!

GMS, you're casting pearls to swine. The fundamental truth of unity in strength is lost on some people. After 53 years of monolithic rule and a stunted opposition, even the village idiot can see that a fragmented opposition is an electoral godsend to the incumbent.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

GMS, you're casting pearls to swine. The fundamental truth of unity in strength is lost on some people. After 53 years of monolithic rule and a stunted opposition, even the village idiot can see that a fragmented opposition is an electoral godsend to the incumbent.

Yes! I earned the title of swine!

back to the topic ... please define "unity". What does it constitute, what should people agree on, and what are they allowed to disagree on. Where are the boundaries, OB markers, etc. What happens when someone breaks the rules, behaves badly, wears slippers in public, assembles illegally in public, has an extra-marital affair, has to resign from Parliament, etc. Please define exactly what is "unity".

 

[wwabbit]

GMS, you're casting pearls to swine. The fundamental truth of unity in strength is lost on some people. After 53 years of monolithic rule and a stunted opposition, even the village idiot can see that a fragmented opposition is an electoral godsend to the incumbent.

"Fragmented" Opposition in GE1991 and GE2011 won 4 seats in 1991 and 6 seats in GE2011
"United" Opposition with majority of parties under SDA in GE2001 and GE2006 won only 2 seats

This is of course, just a counter-example. It doesn't imply that a fragmented opposition will win more seats than a united opposition. GMS tried to imply that forming coalitions will cause more seats to be won by the opposition, now we know that is not true.

What really matters is not whether the opposition parties work together, but how strong the candidates are. There is simply no correlation between unity and seats won.

TFBH brings up a very good point. People talk about "opposition unity" all the time, but in truth no one actually talks about what "opposition unity" mean. Is it just a red herring? Are all the parties supposed to form the new SDA? Or is just participating in the horse-trading session 1 month before the elections sufficient? Yet the most important question remains unanswered: How is unity supposed to win votes?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Sorry to have to keep repeating GoldenDragon's words but I have come to acknowedge this simple fact, and some here still do not.

Hahahahaaaa, no apologies needed. I am flattered.

Imo, it is alomost impossible to achieve opposition unity. With intervention of 'invisible hands', it will never be achieved. If can, I tok!

 

[GoldenDragon]

Yeah... sure.. all the other opposition parties in the world which go into unity and coalition are all filled with madman! LOL!

Well, seems that all these madman in Malaysia are doing very well, already deprived the ruling party 2/3 majority in such a short period of time while our sane man here still struggling with that 8 seats in parliament but thinking how super they are... madness is really relative.

Goh Meng Seng

Only know you as an economist. Now, you are a political scientist. Truly, an incredible citizen of S'pore. If only you were in parliament ................. PAP sure runroad.

 

[cleareyes]

TFBH brings up a very good point. People talk about "opposition unity" all the time, but in truth no one actually talks about what "opposition unity" mean. Is it just a red herring? Are all the parties supposed to form the new SDA? Or is just participating in the horse-trading session 1 month before the elections sufficient? Yet the most important question remains unanswered: How is unity supposed to win votes?

This is one question I would like to have answered as well. All these talk about opposition unity, about sudden and major regime change.

But....what is the aftermate??

It seems those that keep on harping about such matters are obsessed with only one thing, yet ignore the result of what it could be.

If that were to be the case, then I would say, forget about the call for opposition unity. Why? because no one would know what to do if such a unity were to be achieved.

 

[zhihau]

This is one question I would like to have answered as well. All these talk about opposition unity, about sudden and major regime change.

Singaporeans can't stomach sudden changes. that's why me thought that the natural progression should be first wrestle the 2/3 majority from the PAP, then see if the Oppositions can put up a good team, then we see how things develop.

 

[TracyTan866]

Singaporeans can't stomach sudden changes. that's why me thought that the natural progression should be first wrestle the 2/3 majority from the PAP, then see if the Oppositions can put up a good team, then we see how things develop.

Yes, vote out some of the useless ministers.

As long as every singaporean does his/her part, the pap is doomed

 

[yellowarse]

But....what is the aftermate??

A regime change with an alternative coalition government in place that will put Singaporeans' interest front and centre. Social safety net, more labour rights and higher wages for local workers, universal healthcare, more affordable public housing, reduced reliance on foreign labour, immigration curbs, lower cost of living through land pricing reform, greater freedom to speak up without fear of arbitrary arrests...

Or do you want PAP to run Singapore, Inc. for another 50 years?

 

[yellowarse]

Singaporeans can't stomach sudden changes. that's why me thought that the natural progression should be first wrestle the 2/3 majority from the PAP, then see if the Oppositions can put up a good team, then we see how things develop.

I believe if all opposition parties were to cooperate and contest every constituency, we can wrest away the 2/3 majority in the next election, and win a majority (44 seats) in the election after (GE2021). Regime change in 10 years is doable with opposition unity.

 

[cass888]

Malaysia's opposition parties are not led by people who have only their mighty "Second Upper" to boast about.

You still know the difference between your 2-1 and KJ's 2 1s or not?

Yeah... sure.. all the other opposition parties in the world which go into unity and coalition are all filled with madman! LOL!

Well, seems that all these madman in Malaysia are doing very well, already deprived the ruling party 2/3 majority in such a short period of time while our sane man here still struggling with that 8 seats in parliament but thinking how super they are... madness is really relative.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[zhihau]

I believe if all opposition parties were to cooperate and contest every constituency, we can wrest away the 2/3 majority in the next election

one step at a time :p:p:p

 

[wwabbit]

I won't say that there will never be an opposition coalition. At the moment, it is just premature to have one. If you look around the World, coalitions are formed by various parties with actual seats in the parliament or congress, so that together they have enough seats to form a majority government, or to deny the majority side a super-majority.

In our case, there is no coalition to be formed because only one opposition party has a seat in parliament (not counting NCMP/NMP), and there there is not enough seats to deny PAP the super-majority.

We don't need any opposition "unity" to compete all 87 seats in parliament. Even without "unity" we would have competed all 87 in GE2011 if not for some funny business.

"Unity" is not going to win votes. If the opposition parties are strong enough to win 44 seats in GE2021 when "united", they would do the same even as separate parties. But seriously, expecting a regime change by 2021 is far too optimistic, especially if we have to cater to the weaker parties.

If you really want a regime change in 10 years, it can only happen one way - all the best people from the opposition parties join Worker's Party. Nicole Seah, VW, SPP people, plus the WP pick up a few more people with CSM's pedigree. It will be the strength of the party combined with the strength of the candidates that win the votes. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening either because I don't see these people joining WP willingly, I don't see WP accepting all of them willingly, and there's not enough of these kind of people.

IMO, a regime change would take 20 years... and that is being optimistic. Like it or not (I don't), we should expect to be ruled under PAP for at least another 20 years, unless something unexpected implodes within the PAP.