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Is there such a thing as "Cause of Death due to Old Age"?
- Thread starter masgnoeL
- Start date
I've issued many death certificates based on doctor's findings before. Death due to old age? Haven't come across.
Usually, in natural death when a person simply expires, the doctor would say cardio-respiratory failure, i.e. the person's heart stopped beating and s/he stopped breathing, without foul play. If there's any sign of foul play detected by the doctor, s/he won't usually issue any finding as to the cause of death, only certify death and it becomes a coroner's case as to what's the cause of death.
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This article should be of interest. I have heard so many folks telling me their parents died of Old Age. Was thinking that perhaps this is also recorded in some Death Certificates here.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118936833/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Dying of Old Age: An Examination of Death Certificates of Minnesota Centenarians
Charles E. Gessert, MD, MPH , Barbara A. Elliott, PhD , and Irina V. Haller, PhD, MS Division of Education and Research, St. Mary's/Duluth Clinic Health System, Duluth, Minnesota.
Address correspondence to Charles E. Gessert, MD, MPH, Senior Research Scientist, Division of Education and Research, St. Mary's/Duluth Clinic Health System, 400 East 3rd Street, Duluth, MN 55805. E-mail: [email protected]
This work was presented as a poster presentation at the Academy for Health Services Research and Health Policy conference in Atlanta, Georgia, June 10–12, 2001; as part of a panel presentation at the American Public Health Association conference in Atlanta, Georgia, October 22–24, 2001; and as a poster presentation at the Gerontological Society of America conference in Chicago, Illinois, November 15–18, 2001.
Copyright 2002 American Geriatrics Society
KEYWORDS
aging • cause of death • death certificates • longevity
J Am Geriatr Soc 50:1561–1565, 2002.
ABSTRACT
OBJECTIVES:To compare how causes of death are recorded on the death certificates of centenarians with those who die in their 70s, 80s, and 90s. We also examined direct and indirect acknowledgment of age as a cause of death.
DESIGN:Retrospective review of death certificates.
SETTING:State of Minnesota.
PARTICIPANTS:The death certificates of 26,415 individuals aged 70 and over who died in Minnesota in 1998 were examined for underlying causes of death. Of these, 449 were for individuals who were aged 100 and older at the time of their death.
MEASUREMENTS:Causes of death.
RESULTS
iabetes mellitus, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, cirrhosis, myocardial infarction, and most cancers decreased in frequency as reported causes of death with advancing age. Conversely, congestive heart failure, atherosclerosis, and neurological/mental and poorly defined conditions increased in frequency with age.CONCLUSIONS:Centenarians appear to "outlive" the risks for many of the conditions that are common causes of death for those who die in their 70s, 80s, and 90s, such as cancer and myocardial infarction. Conditions associated with aging, such as congestive heart failure and degenerative neurological conditions become more prominent as reported causes of death in the oldest individuals. The guidelines for the completion of death certificates should be modified to facilitate direct acknowledgment of age-related frailty as a contributing cause of death.
so what is acceptable?
can the doctor come to a patient's house and then certify the old folk die from Old Age?
cause of death: old age.
can this death certificate be acceptable?
afterall, the family accept the cause of death as " my old man died from old age..."
can the doctor come to a patient's house and then certify the old folk die from Old Age?
cause of death: old age.
can this death certificate be acceptable?
afterall, the family accept the cause of death as " my old man died from old age..."
I actually don't know. I woke up one morning and had this thought. So, I am pondering on the religious, actuarial and legal implications of putting "old age" as a cause of death on the death certificate. In other words, I am just plain curious and nothing better to do with my brain cells.
The following exchange of letters would be interesting to read. There are others just as curious and boh-liao as me.
On a serious note, there is one way to be born but so many ways to die. It would be of statistical and family-tree reasons to know how one died. So, I am of the opinion that the truth should be told. To put down "cause od death is old age" would be more responsible than putting down "died of natural causes". Just my thought on this.
http://yarchive.net/med/causes_of_death.html
On a serious note, there is one way to be born but so many ways to die. It would be of statistical and family-tree reasons to know how one died. So, I am of the opinion that the truth should be told. To put down "cause od death is old age" would be more responsible than putting down "died of natural causes". Just my thought on this.
http://yarchive.net/med/causes_of_death.html
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From: [email protected] (Steven B. Harris)Subject: Re: Causes of Death in AmericaDate: Sat, 06 Jul 1996Newsgroups: misc.health.alternativeIn <[email protected]> [email protected] (Robert & Sonja Wood)writes:>>Rank:>> 1. Heart Disease 37.8%> 2. Cancer 19.3%> 3. Stroke 10.3%> 4. Accidents (Non-Auto) 3.0%> 5. Influenza (Pneumonia) 2.9%> 6. Motor Vehicle Accidents 2.4%> 7. Diabetes 1.9%> 8. Liver Disease 1.7%> 9. Arterial Sclerosis 1.5%>10. Suicide 1.4%>>48% of the deaths in America this year will come from Heart Disease>and Stokes. I'd take that with a grain of salt, since just about everyoneultimately dies of cardiac failure (think about it), and that's whatgets put on the death certificate if the doctor isn't really sure whathappened (some old person dies in his sleep or collapses in the middleof some other mild illness). But this isn't really heart disease somuch as a catastrophic chain-reaction failure of a very frail systemwithout much reserve, like a house of cards. That reserve has beenlost to aging. One autopsy you find nearly everything wrong in a lotof 90-year olds, but nothing in particular. Thus, lots of people dodie of old age in America, but you can't put this on a deathcertificate most places, either. So what gets put on instead? Youguessed it. Steve Harris, M.D.</PRE><HR>
From: [email protected](Steven B. Harris)Subject: Re: Death from Old AgeDate: Sun, 21 Sep 1997Newsgroups: sci.medIn <[email protected]> [email protected] (JG Bray) writes:>Is there any such thing as death purely from "old age"? I know that>organs tend to wear out, the immune system deteriorates and free radical>attack progressively damages cells but these deaths surely fall under the>categories of cardiac arrest, strokes, cancers, infections etc. When you autopsy really old people you find in a large fraction ofcases that they have everything wrong with them, but nothing inparticular. Cause of death is then rather difficult to determine.Saying "cardiac arrest" is a cop-out, since in that sense we ALL die ofcardiac arrest. Some states allow "old age" as a diagnosis in deathcertificates, and some don't. What is the truth? That's probably a matter of taste. Does yourold car break down because of old age, or because of a flat tire, abusted water pump, broken timing chain, etc, etc, etc? Do you insiston seeing things in the general or the specific sense? Steve Harris, M.D.</PRE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P>
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From: [email protected] (Steven B. Harris)Subject: Re: Causes of Death in AmericaDate: Sat, 06 Jul 1996Newsgroups: misc.health.alternativeIn <[email protected]> [email protected] (Robert & Sonja Wood)writes:>>Rank:>> 1. Heart Disease 37.8%> 2. Cancer 19.3%> 3. Stroke 10.3%> 4. Accidents (Non-Auto) 3.0%> 5. Influenza (Pneumonia) 2.9%> 6. Motor Vehicle Accidents 2.4%> 7. Diabetes 1.9%> 8. Liver Disease 1.7%> 9. Arterial Sclerosis 1.5%>10. Suicide 1.4%>>48% of the deaths in America this year will come from Heart Disease>and Stokes. I'd take that with a grain of salt, since just about everyoneultimately dies of cardiac failure (think about it), and that's whatgets put on the death certificate if the doctor isn't really sure whathappened (some old person dies in his sleep or collapses in the middleof some other mild illness). But this isn't really heart disease somuch as a catastrophic chain-reaction failure of a very frail systemwithout much reserve, like a house of cards. That reserve has beenlost to aging. One autopsy you find nearly everything wrong in a lotof 90-year olds, but nothing in particular. Thus, lots of people dodie of old age in America, but you can't put this on a deathcertificate most places, either. So what gets put on instead? Youguessed it. Steve Harris, M.D.</PRE><HR>
From: [email protected](Steven B. Harris)Subject: Re: Death from Old AgeDate: Sun, 21 Sep 1997Newsgroups: sci.medIn <[email protected]> [email protected] (JG Bray) writes:>Is there any such thing as death purely from "old age"? I know that>organs tend to wear out, the immune system deteriorates and free radical>attack progressively damages cells but these deaths surely fall under the>categories of cardiac arrest, strokes, cancers, infections etc. When you autopsy really old people you find in a large fraction ofcases that they have everything wrong with them, but nothing inparticular. Cause of death is then rather difficult to determine.Saying "cardiac arrest" is a cop-out, since in that sense we ALL die ofcardiac arrest. Some states allow "old age" as a diagnosis in deathcertificates, and some don't. What is the truth? That's probably a matter of taste. Does yourold car break down because of old age, or because of a flat tire, abusted water pump, broken timing chain, etc, etc, etc? Do you insiston seeing things in the general or the specific sense? Steve Harris, M.D.</PRE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></P>
From: Steve Harris <[email protected]>Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,misc.health.alternative,sci.medSubject:
Re: Homeopathy no better than dummy drugs, says studyDate: 28 Aug 2005 19:45:26 -0700Message-ID: <[email protected]>Rich wrote:>
I agree. I see a lot of death certificates. Doctors can write anything they> want in the "cause of death" space, and what they write has little to do> with the true cause of the demise in most cases. I've even seen "cardiac> arrest" listed as a cause of death. Cardiac arrest is a symptom, not a> disease, and is the end result of every cause of death. I have often wished> that there were a legally mandatory protocol for recording death causes, so> that the death certificates, which are public records, could be a valuable> source of data for research. As it is, they are useless.
> --COMMENT:Not quite. In the old days it may have been. Today, serious students ofmortality stats know to throw "cardiac arrest" or "respiratory arrest"completely out if any doctor writes it as proximal cause. They thenproceed to secondary or even teriary causes. "Respiratory arrest"caused by "pneumonia" caused by "lung cancer" gets coded (quiteproperly) as "lung cancer." A certificate with nothing but "cardiacarrest" with nothing else writen as causal (not even MI), will probablyget tossed out of good mortality cause stats completely. As it should,since some fraction of these elderly people die in their sleep ofunknown causes, and without an autopsy you don't know what killed them.The doc needs to write something in, in order to avoid a coroner-caseor ME-case (though truthfully most of these don't get autopsied anyway,getting made a ME-case gums up the funeral works, time-wise), so that'swhat goes in. It's a socially certified place-holder for "I haven't aclue what he died of; one day the old guy just didn't wake up."Maybe Jesus just called him home. Or it could have been bad juju.SBH
</PRE>
Re: Homeopathy no better than dummy drugs, says studyDate: 28 Aug 2005 19:45:26 -0700Message-ID: <[email protected]>Rich wrote:>
I agree. I see a lot of death certificates. Doctors can write anything they> want in the "cause of death" space, and what they write has little to do> with the true cause of the demise in most cases. I've even seen "cardiac> arrest" listed as a cause of death. Cardiac arrest is a symptom, not a> disease, and is the end result of every cause of death. I have often wished> that there were a legally mandatory protocol for recording death causes, so> that the death certificates, which are public records, could be a valuable> source of data for research. As it is, they are useless.
> --COMMENT:Not quite. In the old days it may have been. Today, serious students ofmortality stats know to throw "cardiac arrest" or "respiratory arrest"completely out if any doctor writes it as proximal cause. They thenproceed to secondary or even teriary causes. "Respiratory arrest"caused by "pneumonia" caused by "lung cancer" gets coded (quiteproperly) as "lung cancer." A certificate with nothing but "cardiacarrest" with nothing else writen as causal (not even MI), will probablyget tossed out of good mortality cause stats completely. As it should,since some fraction of these elderly people die in their sleep ofunknown causes, and without an autopsy you don't know what killed them.The doc needs to write something in, in order to avoid a coroner-caseor ME-case (though truthfully most of these don't get autopsied anyway,getting made a ME-case gums up the funeral works, time-wise), so that'swhat goes in. It's a socially certified place-holder for "I haven't aclue what he died of; one day the old guy just didn't wake up."Maybe Jesus just called him home. Or it could have been bad juju.SBH
</PRE>
From: Steve Harris <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,misc.health.alternative,sci.med
Subject: Re: Homeopathy no better than dummy drugs, says study
Date: 28 Aug 2005 20:01:45 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Happy Dog wrote:
> "C.Health" <[email protected]>wrote in
>
> > Very poor argument Mark, sorry. All deaths and causes are recorded.
>
> My neighbour has congestive heart failure. He's a Christian Scientist sheep and refused medical attention in favour of the ministrations of his
> Christian Science practitioner. When he finally collapsed, puffed to 150% of his normal size, he accepted medication which promptly reduced the edema.
> He's now torn between prayer and having bandages wrapped around his limbs to control the edema (he'll likely die since he's tried this a couple times and he becomes comatose after a few days) and accepting medication. If dies because he eschews real medical care, will his death certificate read "Christ-besotted idiot. Died from lack of proper medical care."?
>
> moo
COMMENT
I've quit writing "cardiac arrest" and "repiratory arrest" as causes of
death, at all, because they don't help the data-collectors (and I know
are thrown out). But "congestive heart failure" is a perfectly good
cause of death. In both California and Utah they not only have a
cascade of causes (which you're supposed to fill in, in terms of
decreasingly less proximateness), but the doctor is required to write
the time-course of affliction in, for each of them. Thus, if you write
that your patient died of "primary cardiac arrhythmia" (lasting
minutes) after 3 months of congestive heart failure, he'll likely get
coded as a CHF death (if you don't put what the rhythm was,
they assume you weren't monitoring it, so what do you know, anyway?).
But do the same and put CHF time as "hours", he'll probably get coded as an CAD
death, even if you don't put down MI.
Utah's death certificate (at least) has a separate "sin spot" for
"contributory causes" which were not *directly* responsible for death.
This is where the doctor gets to exercise his professional indignation
by putting in stuff like "chronic alcoholism" for the stroke guy, or
"smoking" or "morbid obesity" for the MI death. In the case of your
guy, I'd be SORELY tempted to put "Christian Science" in, right there.
SBH
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Index Home About
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,misc.health.alternative,sci.med
Subject: Re: Homeopathy no better than dummy drugs, says study
Date: 28 Aug 2005 20:01:45 -0700
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Happy Dog wrote:
> "C.Health" <[email protected]>wrote in
>
> > Very poor argument Mark, sorry. All deaths and causes are recorded.
>
> My neighbour has congestive heart failure. He's a Christian Scientist sheep and refused medical attention in favour of the ministrations of his
> Christian Science practitioner. When he finally collapsed, puffed to 150% of his normal size, he accepted medication which promptly reduced the edema.
> He's now torn between prayer and having bandages wrapped around his limbs to control the edema (he'll likely die since he's tried this a couple times and he becomes comatose after a few days) and accepting medication. If dies because he eschews real medical care, will his death certificate read "Christ-besotted idiot. Died from lack of proper medical care."?
>
> moo
COMMENT
I've quit writing "cardiac arrest" and "repiratory arrest" as causes of
death, at all, because they don't help the data-collectors (and I know
are thrown out). But "congestive heart failure" is a perfectly good
cause of death. In both California and Utah they not only have a
cascade of causes (which you're supposed to fill in, in terms of
decreasingly less proximateness), but the doctor is required to write
the time-course of affliction in, for each of them. Thus, if you write
that your patient died of "primary cardiac arrhythmia" (lasting
minutes) after 3 months of congestive heart failure, he'll likely get
coded as a CHF death (if you don't put what the rhythm was,
they assume you weren't monitoring it, so what do you know, anyway?).
But do the same and put CHF time as "hours", he'll probably get coded as an CAD
death, even if you don't put down MI.
Utah's death certificate (at least) has a separate "sin spot" for
"contributory causes" which were not *directly* responsible for death.
This is where the doctor gets to exercise his professional indignation
by putting in stuff like "chronic alcoholism" for the stroke guy, or
"smoking" or "morbid obesity" for the MI death. In the case of your
guy, I'd be SORELY tempted to put "Christian Science" in, right there.
SBH
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.widowsquest.com/old-age-is-not-a-cause-of-death/
Old Age is Not a Cause of Death
by anna on August 21st, 2007
We all have said “They died of old age” well I have just read this article in the Dallas News that says that old age is not a cause of death. It states
“ At the federal level, old age is not considered a cause of death. Organs wear down, diseases
catch up; there’s always a specific reason for a person’s death.”
What made me smile was the phrase “a specific reason”. For widows there seems to be no reason at all….but then that is the emotional side of us looking for an explanation to losing someone.
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<!-- You can start editing here. -->2 opinions for Old Age is Not a Cause of Death
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Old Age is Not a Cause of Death
by anna on August 21st, 2007
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My nana is coming up to 100 years old and I fear the call that says that she is no longer with us. She is special to me, she has been part of my life…I love her to bits. I know that she will not be with us forever but no matter how hard I try, I cannot face not having her there.<IFRAME id=ch_ad90 style="DISPLAY: none" name=ch_ad90 marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="about<b></b>:blank" frameBorder=0 width=0 scrolling=no height=0 allowTransparency></IFRAME>
We all have said “They died of old age” well I have just read this article in the Dallas News that says that old age is not a cause of death. It states
“ At the federal level, old age is not considered a cause of death. Organs wear down, diseases
catch up; there’s always a specific reason for a person’s death.”What made me smile was the phrase “a specific reason”. For widows there seems to be no reason at all….but then that is the emotional side of us looking for an explanation to losing someone.
<TABLE class=table-css id=rateStatusInfoTable_0_bottom style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; DISPLAY: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; border-spacing: 0px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY class=outbrain-tbody-css style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; border-spacing: 0px"><TR style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: auto; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; border-spacing: 0px"><TD class=outbrain_my_rating id=rateStatusInfo_0_bottom style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: medium none; DISPLAY: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; border-spacing: 0px"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- You can start editing here. -->2 opinions for Old Age is Not a Cause of Death
- tolive4ever<LI class=" comment " id=comment-22049>
Aug 21, 2007 at 11:29 am
Unfortunately , death always comes
<LI class=" comment ">
- Whatifyoucould?
Aug 25, 2008 at 7:25 am
What if ld age was just loss of too many brain cells and the body ceased to be able to support all body functions? There are indicators that this could be true, like growing senial. If someone could find a way to make brain cells that would split and duplicate all of the knowledge they hold, then people would never forget anything they would never grow senial and they possibly would never die of old age, but this is only a theroy and I am only a college student.
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