FLOOD: hydrological basic simple enough for everyone

http://uncleyap.blogspot.com/2010/07/flood-hydrological-basic-simple-enough.html


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FLOOD: hydrological basic simple enough for everyone









By simple hydrological knowledge, we know that dams are constructed on rivers to flood their valleys into artificial lakes used usually as reservoirs. In Singaporean examples, McRitchie; Seletar (upper & lower); Kranji; Pandan; Peirce (upper & lower) are all reservoirs constructed out of their respective named rivers. I can only recall one reservoir - Bedok that is not constructed by building a dam on a river.

The famiLEE LEEgime now built Marina Barrage, to dam both Singapore River & Kallang River, to become yet another fresh water reservoir. That is another expensive plan of PUB under MEWR under Yaacob Ibrahim to have have water after failure to negotiate water supply from Malaysia.



The fact we are familiar is that all the dams which constructed our reservoirs had flooded an area enlarging their original rivers into an artificial lake. But, ALL except for Marina Barrage! It is not designed to flood up Singapore River & Kallang River to make any artificial lake to be used as any Reservoir. That is unique!

So where is the flood area caused by construction of Marina Barrage?

• Orchard Road became Orchard Reservoir?
• Bukit Timah Road became Bukit Timah Reservoir?
• Several others in the catchment areas of Singapore & Kallang Rivers?

We don't need to have PHD in hydrological science in order to relate the obvious facts compared before and after the completion of Marina Barrage. Orchard Road did not flooded for 2 to 3 decades before, and only after the billion dollar Barrage.

But here is the most audacious lie about Marina Barrage & flood by famiLEE LEEgime: posted by uncleyap at http://uncleyap.blogspot.com/2010/07/flood-hydrological-basic-simple-enough.html" title="permanent link">8:54 AM






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It is also worth noting that usually dams in countries with rivers on higher elevations are used for hydro-power-generation.

<img src="http://aquafornia.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Hoover-Dam-Power-Lines.JPG" width="800px">

Marina Barrage is however TOTALLY THE OPPOSITE!

It does not generate power for us Singaporeans, instead it has 7 huge pumps each consuming lots of electrical power paid by our tax dollars!

See upper left of this photo from Marina Barrage's official website:



What did 7 pumps each sucking 40 cubic meters of water per second consume? Mega watts? Consume instead of Generate! We PAY instead of GETTING PAID!

uncleyap said:

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UK got Loch Ness Monster. We got this!

ISD must go and catch this Marina Barrage alien monster!
:p

HongKanSeng said:

UK got Loch Ness Monster. We got this!

ISD must go and catch this Marina Barrage alien monster!
:p

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improved version with shadow for Sotong...

uncleyap said:

improved version with shadow for Sotong...

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When Singapore PAP make mistakes, they sue the opposition parties for bringing up the mistakes to public notice. So, they are not held accountable.
This is a moral hazard and will lead to more and bigger mistakes, such as this case.

What is the Singapore govt going to do, sue the sky bankrupt for causing floods?
They may have controlled the Singaporeans, but they cannot control the sky.

Research has shown, The more you pay the people, the more stupid they became. That is why the PAP ministers are paid so much.

Yaacob Ibrahim deserve an award and pay bonus for this mistake.

"The price of democracy is eternal vigilant" Thomas Jefferson

I think this pretty much sums up what is going on Singapore. There are not enough people scrutinizing what is going on hence PAP are allowed to make mistakes like these. I remember when I first came to Australia, a lot of Singaporean said how things in Australia are so "inefficient", cut a tree need council approval, do a house, extend a wall need this permit, need consultation on community etc etc. Turns out this is the exact thing that is missing in the public lives in Singapore. If nothing happens, then most people would view it as an inefficiency, if a big flood, fire, happens then it raises more questions on why there is not sufficient evaluations on the proposal. The orchard flood is still "minor", wait for the really big one to happen where lives, property has lost before you will start seeing people taking action against the government. The rate its going, I'm thinking it would happen sooner then later.

neddy said:

When Singapore PAP make mistakes, they sue the opposition parties for bringing up the mistakes to public notice. So, they are not held accountable.
This is a moral hazard and will lead to more and bigger mistakes, such as this case.

What is the Singapore govt going to do, sue the sky bankrupt for causing floods?
They may have controlled the Singaporeans, but they cannot control the sky.

Research has shown, The more you pay the people, the more stupid they became. That is why the PAP ministers are paid so much.

Yaacob Ibrahim deserve an award and pay bonus for this mistake.

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This thread is crap!

Ash007 said:

"The price of democracy is eternal vigilant" Thomas Jefferson

I think this pretty much sums up what is going on Singapore. There are not enough people scrutinizing what is going on hence PAP are allowed to make mistakes like these. I remember when I first came to Australia, a lot of Singaporean said how things in Australia are so "inefficient", cut a tree need council approval, do a house, extend a wall need this permit, need consultation on community etc etc. Turns out this is the exact thing that is missing in the public lives in Singapore. If nothing happens, then most people would view it as an inefficiency, if a big flood, fire, happens then it raises more questions on why there is not sufficient evaluations on the proposal. The orchard flood is still "minor", wait for the really big one to happen where lives, property has lost before you will start seeing people taking action against the government. The rate its going, I'm thinking it would happen sooner then later.

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I lived with regrets the decisions I imposed on those affected, while I was there.
I know how it is like to defend my lousy decisions, take hush-up remedial actions or shut the whistle-blower up with promotion or CBT.
There was a time when I wonder if I am able to leave my position behind without someone coming after my mistakes. (That is why people like LKY cannnot retire, they will still be in power even after they are lowered into the grave - like Hitler/Stalin)

This is also why Kev Rudd was removed from power.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...the-enemy-within/story-e6frg6z6-1225887059051

I see where you are coming from and yes Amy Khor sounded absolutlely stupid by saying the barrage 'helped' us because by nature of a dam... it just holds water in..

But i have to say that the barrage was valid in an attempt to secure water resources as water could be similar in value to oil one day... esp with population rising etc etc

i suspect someone underestimated the size of the river mouth.. or the length of the barrage.

Is octopus also a Hum? Got eat Mee Siam?

Is Octopus Humty Dumty?

Does Octopus Take Cover?

http://uncleyap.blogspot.com/2010/07/flood-what-is-lacked-in-marina-barrage.html



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FLOOD: What is lacked in the Marina Barrage White Elephant?

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<div style="clear:both;"></div><div style="text-align: justify;">The best illustration I can find is to use comparisons among existing Singaporean reservoirs.<br /><br />The illustration using Upper &amp; Lower Pierce Reservoir plus McRitchie Reservoir, indicates how dams were build on originally tiny rivers to flood up their relevant river valleys to form artificial lakes serving as reservoirs. The facts that need to be noted is that large areas were flooded and depth of water increased. The surrounding areas of these water bodies are natural areas instead of urban city. In other words in case of heavy rain fall, some amount of additional flood areas that become submerged after heavy rainfall are OK within these areas, because they are not urban city areas.<br /><br /></div><br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ke74GFuXRms/TDyS6n8R85I/AAAAAAAAC7w/Uyrpolnl_-o/s1600/SG_satellite_reservoirs.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 400px; height: 286px;" src="http://172.31.254.242/2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ke74GFuXRms/TDyS6n8R85I/AAAAAAAAC7w/Uyrpolnl_-o/s400/SG_satellite_reservoirs.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5493427181337047954" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><div style="text-align: justify;"> But what about Orchard Road?<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 204);"> The Marina Barrage's White Elephant Absolutely DID NOT designed for any additional flood area to be expanded from Singapore River &amp; Kallang River, to hold additional water (regardless rain or shine) after the structure cut-off flow of water from these rivers into sea.</span><br /><br />To highlight this point the best comparison is Pandang Reservoir, which dam cordoned an area which was originally the river mouth, to become reservoir. This is the area highlighted in darker blue below. It is ADDITIONAL AREA to contain water and it can hold certain amount in the in even of heavy rainfall.<br /><br />This ADDITIONAL HOLDING AREA is what is <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">TOTALLY LACKED</span> with the Marina Barrage Project.<br /><br /><br /></div><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ke74GFuXRms/TDyS6G4bnRI/AAAAAAAAC7o/wSCFnhTIFEs/s1600/Pandang_reservoir.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 300px; height: 376px;" src="http://172.31.254.244/2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ke74GFuXRms/TDyS6G4bnRI/AAAAAAAAC7o/wSCFnhTIFEs/s400/Pandang_reservoir.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5493427172462533906" border="0" /></a><br />I will further illustrate the same point again with Kranji Reservoir as example:<br /><br /><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ke74GFuXRms/TDyYFPLZohI/AAAAAAAAC8A/iLvhj1u6bYk/s1600/Kranji_reservoir.jpg"><img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer; width: 300px; height: 389px;" src="http://172.31.254.243/4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ke74GFuXRms/TDyYFPLZohI/AAAAAAAAC8A/iLvhj1u6bYk/s400/Kranji_reservoir.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5493432861226279442" border="0" /></a><br /><div style="text-align: justify;">Comparing against the neighboring water body the flooded up area which form the reservoir is very obvious. There is is EXPANDED AREA (and depth) to hold additional water, the surrounding area is NOT URBAN CITY. It this one flooded in very heavy rain, than at most only the SAF Kranji Camp will be affected. :-) My last reservist unit before I retired at age of 40 was there. <span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">Any ways the point is where is this additional flood area for Marina Barrage? </span><br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(102, 0, 204);">The answer seems to be Orchard Road unfortunately!</span><br /><br /><br /><br /></div><div style="clear:both; padding-bottom:0.25em"></div>
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<em>posted by uncleyap at <a href="http://uncleyap.blogspot.com/2010/07/flood-what-is-lacked-in-marina-barrage.html" title="permanent link">8:51 AM</a></em>

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The lack of additional holding area, the water trapped by Marina Barrage have additional place to go especially on heavy rainfall. Water level can only rise upwards within the same area in the catchment area around our city serviced by Singapore River & Kallang River. To effective drainage the gradient is important factor for water flow down. The steepness of gradient is reduced when water level raised downstream. Drainage became less effective after water is being stopped by Marina Barrage from discharging into sea as per normal. Water will find their own places to flood when they found no better places to hold them.

There will be difference if there was a large enough holding area. It's effect is similar with accumulators in fluid mechanics or capacitors in electrical circuits. Flash floods are comparable with transients & spikes in electronic circuits.

Unlike the other PUB water catchment areas in the natural reserves, our urban city is not tolerant with flash floods. If you stop rain water from going out to the sea then you better have additional hold area for them to be held, otherwise they will find their own places to flood.:p That is Yaacob's duty!

You are possibly mad.

A barrage may slow down drainage and cause floods but insinuating the multi-billion Marina BFC/the caSINos/Orchard Road will end up as reservoirs or water catchment area is overly imaginative.

Water can be released into the sea by lowering the gates when there is low tide. Or pump out to the sea when there is high tide. Come next year, the water will end up in the bodies of 5 million residents or as sai chwee. We will be drawing water from the new desalted reservoirs (Marina, Serangoon, Punggol). From next year onwards, you should be praying for more rain.

In fact, I imagine the reverse situation of drought coinciding with high tide. I wonder if the pressure on the barrage may be too great unless we reverse pump seawater into the reservoir which makes the water undrinkable. There is a smaller reservoir connected to Marina but it too will be useless during droughts.

Lastly, I wonder if some of the recent floods have to do with the desalting process. It requires keeping fresh rain water in the reservoirs as much and as long as possible instead of letting the rain water drain off to the sea from the reservoirs' surface.

I think you might well have pointed out another problem with the Barrage.

In any case, while I think the Barrage might have contributed to the recent floods, I don't think it's necessary a white elephant. They need to be able to discharge water, either by opening that seventh gate or pumping sooner when it rains.

But I think you are right though when you suggest that some people might be over enthusiastic with the desalting process, i.e they want the reservoir to hold as much fresh water as possible in the shortest time possible.

phouse3 said:

You are possibly mad.

A barrage may slow down drainage and cause floods but insinuating the multi-billion Marina BFC/the caSINos/Orchard Road will end up as reservoirs or water catchment area is overly imaginative.

Water can be released into the sea by lowering the gates when there is low tide. Or pump out to the sea when there is high tide. Come next year, the water will end up in the bodies of 5 million residents or as sai chwee. We will be drawing water from the new desalted reservoirs (Marina, Serangoon, Punggol). From next year onwards, you should be praying for more rain.

In fact, I imagine the reverse situation of drought coinciding with high tide. I wonder if the pressure on the barrage may be too great unless we reverse pump seawater into the reservoir which makes the water undrinkable. There is a smaller reservoir connected to Marina but it too will be useless during droughts.

Lastly, I wonder if some of the recent floods have to do with the desalting process. It requires keeping fresh rain water in the reservoirs as much and as long as possible instead of letting the rain water drain off to the sea from the reservoirs' surface.

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The answer will be very clear if opposition asked Yaacob in the parliament weather did the PUB ever lower the gates to spill water out to the sea during the floods.

The area enclosed within the Marina Barrage is not big, nor deep to hold much water. However even if tide was low and gates can be used to discharge water it won't be immediately helping the situation and water level upstream as far as the flooded area is concerned e.g. Orchard. The latency could be half hour or 20 mins.

When the tide is high you can only depend on the very limited pumps. Which is stated @40 tons per sec and there is only 7 of them. Even if you ran them at full speed, it is only 280 tons per sec, there can be more than 280 tons pers sec of rain fall within the catchment area of may be 20 Sq km. When it rained heavily for hours, can pumps beat the sky?

uncleyap said:

The answer will be very clear if opposition asked Yaacob in the parliament weather did the PUB ever lower the gates to spill water out to the sea during the floods.

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If someone at PUB forgot to lower the gates, that is another million dollar mistake