Living in JB

[cathylmg]

I heard the developers had a close door meeting with gov officers that the new IM will include SG and KL in their master plan. Maybe it will not be all about Johor.

Let me make a guess. Is it the possibility of a high speed rail?

[LeMans2011]

Not always clear... sometimes it may be the surname that carries the actual weight...

I think at that time:

President - Wong Kok Siew (has since passed away)
MD - Tay Siew Choon (this guy will always leave a meeting halfway saying he needs to see Ho Ching)
CEO - Yeo Ning Hong
Chairman - Ho Ching

[gskalra]

Bros, there were many many factors i left out when making the move to Johore, i couldn't have kept waiting until all the sums are done, all the Ts & Cs ticked and checked off before i came. If i really did that, 3 years, later, i would still be in SG, still deciding, deciding and deciding.

The world is filled with dreamers, the doers are those who dared to act upon their dreams.
As for the dreamers? They are still dreaming. Dare to dream but dare to act too.

This weekend i may have friends and relatives of friends who will come by, they are starting to act on their dreams. I will make an exception for them but i think after this one, i really have to "close shop" A bit tired and health not so good i think.

In my situation, how will i get it done. I need a year to get the downpayment in order. Plus there is a need for extra cash. Any ways I can work it out faster?

[curiouscat]

One thing they really need to do to improve connectivity is to make taking the taxi much easier. They should licence Singapore and Malaysian taxis to be able to go point to point between Singapore and Johor. They can put on whatever licensing requirements they want - to assure quality and get whatever taxes, etc. they want.

It would be better if it was open - but if they want to put on restrictions like these special taxis must stay in their home territory or travel between the 2 (for example a Singapore taxi can't pick up someone in JB and deliver them to a different JB address).

I really can't see what interest is served by not allowing point to point taxis. All it does is make it a pain to travel by taxi between the 2 cities. Fine, if they really didn't want to deal with each other 20 years ago, then this system made sense. But if they really wan to encourage cooperation and easier connectivity they need to fix this situation. The next thing is to stop having such huge jams - this is a matter of efficiency measures.

I don't see any evidence the capacity of the infrastructure is the issue. It is possible it is, but I am skeptical. It seems more likely more effort needs to be placed on operating in ways that do not allow jams. Start posting the backlogs of each mode of transportation on a web site with historical data showing the times to get through at both links on both sides. Then show they are serious by taking actions to continually drive down any spikes in wait time.

These are the types of actions that show you are serious about results. Taking about tunnels seems to me, more about showing you are spending money and making contractors happy that a huge, expensive project is being promised. I really can't understand how a very expensive tunnel makes sense. You could probably add bridges in 2 new locations for the price of 1 tunnel. I can understand why tunnels would make sense if for example we were taking about something near the Singapore CBD where you have to retain every inch of expensive land. Other than a tunnel being cool I really don't see the point.

A few announcements rumoured to be:

1) Easier access and connectivity between two countries such as a third link.. or expansion of the current causeway or MRTs etc etc. Even got SBS buses running 2nd link into Nusajaya from Singapore.
2) Sporeans living in Iskandar do not need passport to enter or leave Spore and Iskandar.
3) An exclusive high-end residence and taman in Medini owned 50-50 by both T and K. Can pay by CPF.
4) Singapore to be part of Malaysia. Lee Hsien Loong will be DPM. PM Najib salary will be S$300,000 ( from S$10,000 currently )

[curiouscat]

People like to liken the JB-Spore relationship to Shenzhen-HKG... for me, I prefer to think of it as Taiwan-China.
Two sovereign nations, working ever closely together, need not be a bad thing for everyone (ok ok, 60% or 40% may disagree...)...

Just my rambling 2c thots.

Hmm, well China doesn't agree that they are 2 sovereign nations :-(

You are right that the 2 sovereign nations adds some unique issues. But I think HK and Manhattan are good examples to look at. I think you lose a great deal of the essence of the comparison when the Singapore match isn't a city. Singapore needs a larger space to grow economically valuable enterprises (just like HK and Manhattan do). Taiwan can go internally to Taiwan and trade externally. Singapore is also partnering with Indonesia. They know they need space.

Taiwan and China's relationship I think is different. And if we carry that too far is it Malaysia that wants to re-absorb Singapore? :-) You are right though, that we must factor in the 2 sovereign nation situation when thinking about how this will play out. There are some really small nations in Europe, there is probably something to learn in what they have done with neighbors (hopefully people in the government of Malaysia and Singapore are doing that).

[curiouscat]

Singapore taxis can go to any destination in Johor to drop of their passenger provided that they pay an annual fee of S$1k. IMHO, they must have a similar scheme to offer their own taxi drivers?

How do I call for one of these taxis when I am in Singapore? I always thought you had to go to Queen Street to catch the Malaysian Taxis.

[cathylmg]

I thought suggestion of 3rd link was being killed? Now it's a discussion on constructing underground tunnel at causeway?

It is real. Came out on Singaporean newspapee not long ago. The feasibility study of the third link is on. Can't remember which new paper liao. Proberly 1 or 2 months ago.

[cathylmg]

Can't blame them. Nowadays the forces are run by young scholars that lack the depth of experience and are mainly still wet behind the ears. What they learned are based on theories and books. OOps....

Also by FT from Malaysia. Don't believe right? They have tried to rent my HDB rooms before I move to JB. Thats how I came to know about this. Just think about it, they don't grow up here, don't have connections, don't know this place well enough, how can you expect them to crack cases?

[cathylmg]

How do I call for one of these taxis when I am in Singapore? I always thought you had to go to Queen Street to catch the Malaysian Taxis.

I got a taxi driver relative who told me so. He has followed his girlfriend to the Philliphine liao. I'll ask him about it when I see him. However, I do remember seeing an NTUC cab crossing the 1st link with passengers on board sometime ago.

[sggecko]

I've decided to pull out of my JB property hunt as I feel it is being priced at premium.
- Nusajaya location isn't yet mature and the land is 3x of singapore.
- The rental market is poor and with the flood of Singaporean money into Nusajaya or surrounding, this create the surge in supply. This will give further poor rental yield.
- I was talking to developer and for the property around RM700k + RM100k reno + fitting = her monthly estimated rental is only RM2k to max RM2.5k.
If I buy this Nusajaya property it only means I'm subsidizing others to stay.
- Whenever only foreigners are buying. The property is deemed to be premium. Look at who are buying in Nusajaya? 90% foreigners.
- With equal price/psf I can get a better appartment at the heart of KL, the capital.

Just compare this Orion condo in KL with Impiana East Ledang:
http://www.iproperty.com.my/property...minium_ForSale
- Impiana has inferior appartment status while Orion is a condo status.
- psf price wise is the same but I believe Orion has better interior fitting as it has condo status.
- Orion at the heart of KL city. Impiana at the heart of ledang city still surrounded by woods.

Similarly you still can find landed in KL with the price of Horizon Hills. why would I buy unproven location?

[lastresort]

One thing they really need to do to improve connectivity is to make taking the taxi much easier. They should licence Singapore and Malaysian taxis to be able to go point to point between Singapore and Johor. They can put on whatever licensing requirements they want - to assure quality and get whatever taxes, etc. they want.

It would be better if it was open - but if they want to put on restrictions like these special taxis must stay in their home territory or travel between the 2 (for example a Singapore taxi can't pick up someone in JB and deliver them to a different JB address).

I really can't see what interest is served by not allowing point to point taxis. All it does is make it a pain to travel by taxi between the 2 cities. Fine, if they really didn't want to deal with each other 20 years ago, then this system made sense. But if they really wan to encourage cooperation and easier connectivity they need to fix this situation. The next thing is to stop having such huge jams - this is a matter of efficiency measures.

I don't see any evidence the capacity of the infrastructure is the issue. It is possible it is, but I am skeptical. It seems more likely more effort needs to be placed on operating in ways that do not allow jams. Start posting the backlogs of each mode of transportation on a web site with historical data showing the times to get through at both links on both sides. Then show they are serious by taking actions to continually drive down any spikes in wait time.

These are the types of actions that show you are serious about results. Taking about tunnels seems to me, more about showing you are spending money and making contractors happy that a huge, expensive project is being promised. I really can't understand how a very expensive tunnel makes sense. You could probably add bridges in 2 new locations for the price of 1 tunnel. I can understand why tunnels would make sense if for example we were taking about something near the Singapore CBD where you have to retain every inch of expensive land. Other than a tunnel being cool I really don't see the point.

Hi CuriousCat, I can understand your frustration. But don't you think if Malaysia taxis are able to operate in Singapore from point to point, say from Jurong to Changi, they will be able to earn Singapore Dollar, competing with our local operators without having to pay a license fee and running at much lower manpower and diesel cost. What will happen to our domestic operators if they go JB and earn Malaysia Ringgit. Sure they can always look for long haul trips to KL, etc, but how often can they do this when they have their families in Singapore waiting for them to come home every day from other states.

[lastresort]

I hate to see the day when people queuing at taxi stands reject Singapore operators and wait for a Malaysia cab in the queue because they know these cabbies charge lower rate. Okay if they charge same rate, earn same amount of Singapore dollar, pump their patrol in JB, don't need to bid for COE, drive a Proton. It won't be fair to our poor Singapore cabbies if these Malaysia cabbies are able to do their business in Singapore, vice versa, Singapore cabbies ply their trade in Malaysia. I'm sure they have done a study on this before, but it's not gonna be easy to implement good regulations.

What if the SG cabbie decides to drive his cab to Malaysia and never return. No one will suspect anything when they see this yellow taxi in a small Johor town because he is allowed to drive there.

[wuqi256]

Makes sense... Guess I didn't look at it in a bigger picture... But I have another ignorant view on this...feel free to slap me again....Heee

Say if Malaysia progress very well... To a point 1sgd = 1.5rm.... Those still paying loan will suffer....
Next, if going in and out of jb becoz much easier, the housing price and rental yield in sg will definitely be affected... As the FTs might start buying houses in jb rather then to buy or rent in sg....

Now if both of the scenario happens, singaporeAns living in jb will be tied up with a loan that is significantly higher due to the exchange rates, at the same time the rental income in sg being jeopardize....

P.s: I juz saw chiam see tong in NUH... Heartaches as he seem really really weak

Hi Tutucake, we can never prepare for all eventualities. Just follow your heart and hope for the best.
A meteor may fall on us tomorrow, a plane may fly into the building we are in, a shark may fall out of a storm and eat you in the middle of a desert while you are riding on a horse. There are just too many things that may go wrong in this world. Even buying property in SG, what if one day it falls? This is a scenario that is likelier to happen but then so many are still buying in SG?

Bro Tutucake, i know its hard to be positive at times in this dark, cold and hardened world we live in, just don't give up, picture the best and worst scenario and then picture the in between scenario and let that lead the way. Its easier said that done but too much negative stuff eats you up. I know of a whole bunch of very negative people. Even a walk outside their HDB, they will fear stones and wild dogs.

What did these people amount to in the end? Nothing much unfortunately. Not in terms of material nor life experience. They played it safe, all the way, until the end. Did they remain safe, well sometimes as some still had bad accidents IN THE SAFETY OF THEIR OWN HOME. Worse, they would probably report to their maker: "Boss i never went anyway, never did anything, i remained safe until the day i fell and hit the bathroom tiles."
"I guess i forgot about that possibility"

Unless science advances alot in a short time, all who read this will have to die one day, if one conquers the worst fears, then there is no longer anything to be fearful about. Many still postpone that dream trip or flight as they want to do it when they are "older" but they forgot, the man upstairs may have different plans and your "older" and his "older" may differ by many years. Even if you truly make it, your eyesight will be blurred, your footsteps weak and your breath slow and laboured. How far/much can you see or travel by then? We all have been told to be patient and wait for good things to come but there are some things in life that probably cannot wait. (Not referring to property related stuff) It can just be a lifestyle decision, go rent a hotel or a house/apartment, live in the place for a couple of months and see if you can take it or not. Then if not, its just an experience learnt.

Too often i see so many friends afraid to try new things or even to extend a help to others, too afraid to make a mistake or be laughed at. Yes people may laugh at you if you tried and failed but not everyone will laugh at you, some will secretly be wishing they have the guts to even try like you. What happens if on the other hand you succeed? Are you then going to be afraid of the thunder of their applause and the fireworks they will light in your name? When does fear ends and ones life truly begins?

As for Mr Chiam, i really respect him, still fighting all the way to the end in a blaze of glory.

Dedicated to all who are constantly fearful about life:
http://youtu.be/Jne9t8sHpUc

An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died the next day
It's a black fly in your Chardonnay
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
And isn't it ironic... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly
He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids goodbye
He waited his whole damn life to take that flight
And as the plane crashed down he thought
"Well isn't this nice..."
And isn't it ironic... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought... it figures

[curiouscat]

I've decided to pull out of my JB property hunt as I feel it is being priced at premium.
- Nusajaya location isn't yet mature and the land is 3x of singapore.
- The rental market is poor and with the flood of Singaporean money into Nusajaya or surrounding, this create the surge in supply. This will give further poor rental yield.
- I was talking to developer and for the property around RM700k + RM100k reno + fitting = her monthly estimated rental is only RM2k to max RM2.5k.
If I buy this Nusajaya property it only means I'm subsidizing others to stay.
...

I still need to do a fair amount more research but from what I have done so far, I think your analysis is right. The reason to invest in Johor is to bet on price appreciation of the property (rental rates do not seem to justify it [on the basis of rents] now). This situation is a risky time to invest in real estate. You need compelling reasons for that state (one in which rental yields are too low to justify investing) to be corrected. I think Johor though offers a potential that makes it worth considering (and potentially very rewarding) even given this state.

That investment case I think is mostly driven by Malaysia rolling out Iskandar well and Singapore and Malaysia building on the recent economic cooperation. If that happens the potential is great. Then people can easily be looking back and saying, why didn't I get in 10 years ago. Now That things are booming, new office building for internation companies are sprouting up, theme parks are being added, hospitals are bringing in good jobs (and wealthy retirees)...

So I think it is certainly reasonable to say prices are at a premium given today's market. If the potential for the area is close to met though, it may seem cheap in retrospect. But this is what makes investing hard. You don't often get investments with great growth potential, spinning off tons of cash today and have little risk. When you do, you have to buy big. Warren Buffett does this well. Most of the rest of us, seem to miss out.

Of course, I may be wrong. Maybe even today prices are justified by current conditions. I am not familiar enough to really know, I am just getting a sense, that really prices include a fair premium now for people believing the future is very positive here.

It is actually possible that housing investment prices did pretty well without great success (if Singaporeans, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans... bought homes in large numbers). It is possible that could support or even increase prices even without Iskandar doing well. I don't think that will happen. 1st, I think Iskandar will be successful. 2nd, if it isn't, it isn't likely others would buy enough housing to support prices (the proximity to Singapore is the only thing that could possibly allow that to happen - in my opinion).

[ODYSSEY]

Also by FT from Malaysia. Don't believe right? They have tried to rent my HDB rooms before I move to JB. Thats how I came to know about this. Just think about it, they don't grow up here, don't have connections, don't know this place well enough, how can you expect them to crack cases?

Damn, if this is true! That explains - the commitment would not be there. Something is seriously wrong here. Is this another scholarly solution? What were they thinking, FT to catch FT??

[wuqi256]

Bro Wuqi, your modesty is always most disarming.
Anyway, I trust you are definitely not an agent (but even if one is so, like I said to Crystal, so what?)...
So again, perhaps you read my initial message in the wrong context and sorry if any misunderstandings there but anyway, its water under the bridge now, lets move on...

Thanks for the tips on the car mods but frankly, I'm not too handy/knowledgeable with these things and much prefer to let my original car dealer to handle all these mechanical/electrical and keep the engine running smoothly, thats all I need and ask (not cheap at all though)...

I'm seriously considering your suggestion though, on buying a MY car to move around.
That's not a bad idea...

Thanks Maxpark. Yes its already in the oceans.
Me neither but i learnt the basics so as not to be taken for a ride, almost anything in life one can eventually master given enough time and patience.

Don't consider, buying a MY car was one of the smartest things i have ever done. Just lucky to find a good mechanic who is very honest with me.

[wuqi256]

I still need to do a fair amount more research but from what I have done so far, I think your analysis is right. The reason to invest in Johor is to bet on price appreciation of the property (rental rates do not seem to justify it [on the basis of rents] now). This situation is a risky time to invest in real estate. You need compelling reasons for that state (one in which rental yields are too low to justify investing) to be corrected. I think Johor though offers a potential that makes it worth considering (and potentially very rewarding) even given this state.

That investment case I think is mostly driven by Malaysia rolling out Iskandar well and Singapore and Malaysia building on the recent economic cooperation. If that happens the potential is great. Then people can easily be looking back and saying, why didn't I get in 10 years ago. Now That things are booming, new office building for internation companies are sprouting up, theme parks are being added, hospitals are bringing in good jobs (and wealthy retirees)...

So I think it is certainly reasonable to say prices are at a premium given today's market. If the potential for the area is close to met though, it may seem cheap in retrospect. But this is what makes investing hard. You don't often get investments with great growth potential, spinning off tons of cash today and have little risk. When you do, you have to buy big. Warren Buffett does this well. Most of the rest of us, seem to miss out.

Of course, I may be wrong. Maybe even today prices are justified by current conditions. I am not familiar enough to really know, I am just getting a sense, that really prices include a fair premium now for people believing the future is very positive here.

It is actually possible that housing investment prices did pretty well without great success (if Singaporeans, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans... bought homes in large numbers). It is possible that could support or even increase prices even without Iskandar doing well. I don't think that will happen. 1st, I think Iskandar will be successful. 2nd, if it isn't, it isn't likely others would buy enough housing to support prices (the proximity to Singapore is the only thing that could possibly allow that to happen - in my opinion).

Hi Curiouscat, back when i first shared about buying and renting out, it was still very feasible. Like you end up paying bank 50% of what you get back from your tenant. Now, its not so unless the 700k is for a cluster or semi d and you are lucky to get in a good development, then yes it still makes sense. I am sorry for sggecko as its a bit too late to do the investment part now for some areas. I would still differ on the 3x size for Nusajaya as a lot of these land are not meant for residential and some are simply ill suited to be used for it.

[wuqi256]

I do have to agree with you here. I have been looking to move to Malaysia a few years, but had some work problems long the way. So lack of capital. I am really engrossed in this thread, so it can be really tempting. But you are right the extra costs may come to bite me in the back. Need to have a substantial amount of cash aside, before jumping in as well.

I think the next thing to do is to make a plan and list down all the possible costs(inc misc) that may appear. It should become clearer after that.

I will still keep my eye out for things, you never know when opportunity may strike. Thanks Bro MaxPark

Do you math, do your plans and wait and see. The land will always be here if you are aiming for own stay. Just that the choice ones or the ones at a pricepoint you like may no longer be there. There will still be choices though.

[lastresort]

I've decided to pull out of my JB property hunt as I feel it is being priced at premium.
- Nusajaya location isn't yet mature and the land is 3x of singapore.
- The rental market is poor and with the flood of Singaporean money into Nusajaya or surrounding, this create the surge in supply. This will give further poor rental yield.
- I was talking to developer and for the property around RM700k + RM100k reno + fitting = her monthly estimated rental is only RM2k to max RM2.5k.
If I buy this Nusajaya property it only means I'm subsidizing others to stay.
- Whenever only foreigners are buying. The property is deemed to be premium. Look at who are buying in Nusajaya? 90% foreigners.
- With equal price/psf I can get a better appartment at the heart of KL, the capital.

Just compare this Orion condo in KL with Impiana East Ledang:
http://www.iproperty.com.my/property...minium_ForSale
- Impiana has inferior appartment status while Orion is a condo status.
- psf price wise is the same but I believe Orion has better interior fitting as it has condo status.
- Orion at the heart of KL city. Impiana at the heart of ledang city still surrounded by woods.

Similarly you still can find landed in KL with the price of Horizon Hills. why would I buy unproven location?

I've mentioned this comparison before, but even though this Orion is along Jalan Tun Razak (busiest road in Malaysia), it is at the other end of the road, not exactly near KLCC. To get to KLCC, you have to make a U turn at Jalan Pahang roundabout which is 2 km away. That road is very jam and for that 2 km you might get stuck for 30 mins.

this one doesn't appeal to expat or locals.

[lastresort]

overall, KL market is very dynamic, there is oversupply in certain areas in certain sectors. And yes, it is a good place to play.