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Thread: Living in JB

  1. #13461
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by wuqi256 View Post
    Unfortunately, many of us were not around (including myself) when SG existed without them. Lets not forget even certain ruling parties now used to be the opposition parties too.

    Definitely, the party just represent certain groups of people, i always differentiate between the party and the country.
    Yeah don't know why people are so afraid of changing the party running a government? The party running can become opposition and opposition can become govt. People seem to forget how much and how quickly the present govt has lost money through those investments.

  2. #13462
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by wuqi256 View Post
    Agree. Especially for assets in country A, how easy is it to liquidate the assets if one still wants to live in country A? You sell your flat and downgrade but hey there are rules to stop you downgrading. Even if you do, then what, to to find a very rural new HDB that somehow did not appreciate with market forces and buy? Then go through the same circle and hope for the best? Asset growth may have grown in Country A but seriously income growth has not changed much and certainly not enough to account for inflation.

    If one can grow old undisturbed by mounting medical and daily bills, who would want to leave ones own land and leave the things that they were familiar with? Its really not just the pull but the guys in charge should take a long hard look at the push factors. When one or two staff is unhappy, you can blame it on them being choosy or discontented, but when many are unhappy, one should quickly get a mirror and start looking at oneself.

    Dont be too happy. One day country B will become like country A. Never say never!

  3. #13463
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by Puteri harbour View Post
    True but country a guys have a choice to go down two third and spend in country c. If country c is unhappy they will not have a choice.... In country a, nobody die in the street cause there is always bursary, social assistance for the poor while in many countries, the leaders are corrupted and cheat on the poor and the poor die in the street.

    Disclaimer: I am not a supporter of any political party but a proponent of good economic policies(sometime unpopular)

    Cheers,
    PH
    Bro, not everyone in country A can choose to go down and spend in less expensive country. (of coz i agree country C cannot go to A). Assets appreciation only benefits certain groups of the society, and depends on Timing(years). You guys benefited more (i.e. able to buy more properties), i've got only 3. But, have we spared a thought for those who are not, and cannot benefit from any assets appreciation? Worst still, what if assets depreciates like other countries? (leasehold depreciation curve, value = zero at end of lease)

    I'm a investor, if the yield is good, i'll continue to invest in shares, properties as such. If buying more properties prevents another home stayer from owning a house, or have to buy at higher rates because i contributed to the appreciation (demand), will i be morally upright and say, i think i should stop??

    Humans are greedy in nature. Individuals are greedy. It takes a morally upright govt to do the right thing, and not the popular thing.

    And i'm glad Khaw B W made his point now.

  4. #13464
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    The wealth to do need to redistribute and be a kind person. Let hope Singaporean will become more generous and gracious especially those that benefit a lot from the economic growth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whathefish View Post
    http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/pape...ple/pp-s17.pdf

    Look at page 7, and you'll see which tier has benefited from the past decade.

    I am ok, i've got pretty good basket of investments, properties, savings. However, how about the poorer 20 percentile of our citizens? How about our next generation?

  5. #13465
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by Whathefish View Post
    http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/pape...ple/pp-s17.pdf

    Look at page 7, and you'll see which tier has benefited from the past decade.

    I am ok, i've got pretty good basket of investments, properties, savings. However, how about the poorer 20 percentile of our citizens? How about our next generation?
    Sry, wrong page, Page 5, table 5, clearer on the disparity of income.

  6. #13466
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by Puteri harbour View Post
    True but country a guys have a choice to go down two third and spend in country c. If country c is unhappy they will not have a choice.... In country a, nobody die in the street cause there is always bursary, social assistance for the poor while in many countries, the leaders are corrupted and cheat on the poor and the poor die in the street.Disclaimer: I am not a supporter of any political party but a proponent of good economic policies(sometime unpopular)

    Cheers,
    PH
    There are also people in Country A who can't even afford to go to Country C. If we keep comparing Country A to only countries that are "3rd" world, its not being fair to Country A as country A is a 1st world country.

    Neither am i a supporter of any party but while you may not see many dying in the streets, there are definitely homeless, people who go hungry constantly or sick who don't go to seek medical help in Country A. There are still people who go hungry and people in power refused them help.

    http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/04/...mcys-minister/

    As for medical, whenever one mention medical to many elders, they are always saying "One can afford to die but not get sick in Country A", this is reality. If they were just discontented, they would have said, "One can only afford Class C ward in Country A"

    Just because they are in Country A does not mean that they are not living in 3rd world conditions. If one truly believes that there is no corruption in Country A, please do a search online for SLA corruption.

    We can only claim country A is cleaner but just like a toilet, we need to take a real pragmatic look at reality. No matter how clean, there will always be some germs. No place is 100% clean.

    Its not about taking a populist stance, its to face up to the hard reality that is facing much of the local people in Country A today. Despite being (perceived) in a better country, much of them may not have as much in reality especially when they grow old and like what other forummers mentioned, for the next generation.

    I was told that folks at operational level needs to look past the day to day, at senior level, they have to get past the tactical and look to strategic, 5 years and beyond. Country A has done lots of things seriously well, just some of the policies need to be tweaked.

    Just like you may win a battle but you lose a war. Certain policies can be easily tweaked and more efficiencies gather to serve the people better.

    A straightforward one, such as merging those different departments for different races. Instead of a specific race development fund, it could be a Country A development fund. There are people of diverse races already working in these departments (as it should be as this is Country A after all and racial harmony should always be maintained), so its no longer a question of, "Oh this person is of the same race, so he will give me more assistance" We should be way past that now given that Country A is "first world"

    Better efficiency,lesser manpower and costs could be realised if these departments were to be merged. They can still keep all their means testing but this will ensure that more resources can be properly allocated.

  7. #13467
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluereeff View Post
    Dont be too happy. One day country B will become like country A. Never say never!
    Yes never say never.

    Still for those on top now, there will never be one who will be on top forever, change is the only permanence in life. There were the Ottoman empire and countless other superpowers through the ages. Where are they now? Unlike a lot of these, Country A has no resources and easy fallback plan. Ok correction, now they have in some ways.

    Still, a small country is always at the mercy of bigger countries. That will never change though there are steps one can circumvent that but at what cost?
    If there is global famine and price of rice goes up to $500 USD a kilogram, even if its subsidized, many would have to switch to alternative staples (assuming its even available) since Country A (as we all know) has nothing much in the way of natural resources.

    Its going to just take a regional war to wipe out certain economies as they are fragile, Countries like country B or C will likely still survive. Someone once asked me this years ago, an interesting question to ponder: "When people were starving to death in Country A during the Japanese occupation, how did people in Country B fare even though they were also occupied?

    Were the common folks (not talking about POWs) starving just like those in Country A?"

  8. #13468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puteri harbour View Post
    The wealth to do need to redistribute and be a kind person. Let hope Singaporean will become more generous and gracious especially those that benefit a lot from the economic growth.
    Some definitely will but most won't unfortunately as they think most people from Country A is just "complaining" and being discontented. Instead of trying to help those in genuine need, they rather spend more time and effort disparaging them for being choosy/discontented. GDP does not necessarily translate to overall economic benefits for the man in the street.

    My time spent in a fast food chain (factory worker on weekends and security guard at night, yes really thanks to them, i have great jobs like that) when i was young trying to feed the family and study at the same time was quite useful.

    They taught me that "Customers who complain are the best customers, it shows that they have still residual faith and goodwill in the organisation hence we should sift out those frivolous complains from those genuine ones that need our urgent attention" These are people who we can and should do a lot for as a complaining customer still has a very high chance of becoming a "returning" customer.

    The customers that we fear for the most are those that either have voiced out or not heard or those who have given up and moved on to another organisation. Those we can no longer do much for as they no longer give us a chance. Discontentment is one thing but find the root cause, remove the straw from the cauldron and the water will stop boiling.

    Why does one need to go overseas to attract your own people back when you can make easier decisions for them while they are still here? Isn't prevention better than cure?

  9. #13469
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    Quote Originally Posted by ginfreely View Post
    Yeah don't know why people are so afraid of changing the party running a government? The party running can become opposition and opposition can become govt. People seem to forget how much and how quickly the present govt has lost money through those investments.
    I believe that they have grown to used to the system that they cannot be living without it so they don't even want to think about it.
    Ignorance is bliss. I still believe that things haven't gone so bad that they cannot fix it.

    http://youtu.be/Z7BuQFUhsRM

  10. #13470
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuqi256 View Post
    Some definitely will but most won't unfortunately as they think most people from Country A is just "complaining" and being discontented. Instead of trying to help those in genuine need, they rather spend more time and effort disparaging them for being choosy/discontented. GDP does not necessarily translate to overall economic benefits for the man in the street.

    My time spent in a fast food chain (factory worker on weekends and security guard at night, yes really thanks to them, i have great jobs like that) when i was young trying to feed the family and study at the same time was quite useful.

    They taught me that "Customers who complain are the best customers, it shows that they have still residual faith and goodwill in the organisation hence we should sift out those frivolous complains from those genuine ones that need our urgent attention" These are people who we can and should do a lot for as a complaining customer still has a very high chance of becoming a "returning" customer.

    The customers that we fear for the most are those that either have voiced out or not heard or those who have given up and moved on to another organisation. Those we can no longer do much for as they no longer give us a chance. Discontentment is one thing but find the root cause, remove the straw from the cauldron and the water will stop boiling.

    Why does one need to go overseas to attract your own people back when you can make easier decisions for them while they are still here? Isn't prevention better than cure?
    Totally agree. Complains are just voices from the people, some valid, some nonsensical. It takes wise leaders to discern which is which. It takes lazy leaders to ignore all. It takes morally corrupted leaders to sleeve out those which serves their own purposes. It takes stupid leaders to work on all complains.

  11. #13471
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by Whathefish View Post
    Sry, wrong page, Page 5, table 5, clearer on the disparity of income.
    Nothing to be sorry about as this thread has grown pretty long, sometimes i forget what is where sometimes.
    Thanks for sharing this back then.

  12. #13472
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by Whathefish View Post
    Totally agree. Complains are just voices from the people, some valid, some nonsensical. It takes wise leaders to discern which is which. It takes lazy leaders to ignore all. It takes morally corrupted leaders to sleeve out those which serves their own purposes. It takes stupid leaders to work on all complains.
    wow very short, sweet and amply astute observation!

  13. #13473
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    One observation i have is that, most of country A people are smart enough, at least book smart and some to a lesser degree, streetsmart.
    Unfortunately, just like my family members (dads generation), most of them are crabs in a bucket. The infighting and non cooperation in the family doomed most of them to obscurity and a very mundance existance. Its as if they are still fighting one another in their mothers (my grandma's) womb. Things have changed slightly now, probably because unlike the crabs, i was born a lobster (hehehe). Hence instead of fighting, i believe in sharing. Now my sisters and some of my aunts (the nice ones and non crabs) have houses here too, things have changed 180 degrees at least with some members of my family. There is way more trust and sharing than in the past.

    No one would ever have thought we would progress to this new level. Johore has been a boost to the flagging family relations that have plagued the generation before me. Having tried more than 2 years of bringing my grandmother out every weekend (and failing) to still boost family relations made me finally stop and realise it was not going anywhere. Sometimes all some people need is a listening ear, they may not even need a helping hand. If even we don't help each other, who will?
    We need to succeed together, not get each other into trouble. For animal lovers who care enough to stick a sticker on their car to say "Be kind to animals", please realise that sometimes there are helpless people too and humans are also animals. Please be kind to them too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
    Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket, describes a way of thinking best described by the phrase "if I can't have it, neither can you." The metaphor refers to a pot of crabs. Individually, the crabs could easily escape from the pot, but instead, they grab at each other in a useless "king of the hill" competition (or sabotage) which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise. The analogy in human behavior is that of a group that will attempt to "pull down" (negate or diminish the importance of) any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of envy, conspiracy or competitive feelings.

    This term is broadly associated with short-sighted, non-constructive thinking rather than a unified, long-term, constructive mentality. It is also often used colloquially in reference to individuals or communities attempting to "escape" a so-called "underprivileged life," but kept from doing so by others attempting to ride upon their coat-tails or those who simply resent their success.[1]

  14. #13474
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuqi256 View Post
    As for medical, whenever one mention medical to many elders, they are always saying "One can afford to die but not get sick in Country A", this is reality. If they were just discontented, they would have said, "One can only afford Class C ward in Country A"

    .
    I live in Country A & a few years ago I had a heart attack & even though I had more than enough $$$ in my medisave account, I still had to pay thousands because the gov't limits the amount I can use. In fact I ended paying more out of pocket than I could claim from medisave

    One of the medical options recommended by my doctor was open heart surgery. I have enough $$$ in my medisave account to pay for the procedure, but the problem is that the PAP won't let me touch my own money to cover the costs

    If I had decided to go through with the open heart surgery, I could have done it cheaper in Bangkok at one of the private hospitals

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    Quote Originally Posted by horizonhills View Post
    Those living or invested in Horizon Hills must rejoice with me in this piece of great news yet again.

    Yesterday, my friend managed to sell off his Horizon Hills Superlink TERRACE ( TERRACE, not Cluster or semis ) Totally BARE unit.

    The price is RM 1.3 million + resale.

    A few other Superlinks ( big terraces ) have been sold recently for RM 1.1million already.

    Those semis facing the Golf course at the Gateway, I heard from the HH salesmen that one was recently sold for RM 1.6 million +.

    At this rate, below RM 1 million houses cannot be found in HH soon.

    Yesterday the Spore government announced yet another major round of coolig measures to deter the prices from shooting up.

    For sure the investors will start looking to snap up more houses in HH and nearby as there are no restriction on any ownerships or property investments here yet.
    wait for me!!!

    d0nt shoot sooo fast till i cant buy !
    lol

  16. #13476
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    Default Re: Living in JB

    Quote Originally Posted by horizonhills View Post
    Yesterday, my friend managed to sell off his Horizon Hills Superlink TERRACE ( TERRACE, not Cluster or semis ) Totally BARE unit.

    The price is RM 1.3 million + resale.

    A few other Superlinks ( big terraces ) have been sold recently for RM 1.1million already.

    Those semis facing the Golf course at the Gateway, I heard from the HH salesmen that one was recently sold for RM 1.6 million +.
    Ummm, seriously? I barely just bought my unit, but I will cash out instantly if so lol. That kind of price is absolutely absurd.

  17. #13477
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    Quote Originally Posted by teck21 View Post
    Ummm, seriously? I barely just bought my unit, but I will cash out instantly if so lol. That kind of price is absolutely absurd.
    Boss, urs also superlink?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aisanbo View Post
    In a way, it's good.....if the toll fee is not increased for those not using EDL.
    At least there's a choice for people to escape the jam at CIQ if they willing to pay.
    That's additional s$8 per day or s$160/mth which I think is worth it if there's no jam and makes it feasible for daily smooth commuting.
    OMG - If I understand correctly what they have written about this - there is no choice for the ppl using the causeway! the toll booth will be located near/in the CIQ. So, irregardless if you wish to use the EDL or the Tebrau way - you gotta pay, the moment you pass thru the CIQ!
    Those that do not need to pay are ppl using the EDL without hitting the causeway! The changes from 2.90RM currently to 9 bucks..if I am not mistaken....much more expensive than Tuas! knn!!

    Normally i use the causeway rather than Tuas, if this is true better have to think twice already....

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    Quote Originally Posted by teck21 View Post
    Ummm, seriously? I barely just bought my unit, but I will cash out instantly if so lol. That kind of price is absolutely absurd.
    reminds me of the newbie PRs that comes in to buy HDB flats in the last few years. They do not know what is the actual market price and just pay whatever the owner is asking cos when they compare SG with other major cities like Beijing or Shanghai, still cheap. They forgot to compare SG to SG. In the process, these PRs spoil the market and drive up the price resulting in many Singaporeans turning to BTO.

    I think at this rate, it will be no time before M'sian govt intro more cooling measures like raising the min to RM750K for foreigners...

  20. #13480
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    Quote Originally Posted by yonglip View Post
    reminds me of the newbie PRs that comes in to buy HDB flats in the last few years. They do not know what is the actual market price and just pay whatever the owner is asking cos when they compare SG with other major cities like Beijing or Shanghai, still cheap. They forgot to compare SG to SG.
    Hush yonglip bro, I'm in the process of putting my own unit up for sale, don't want you giving them strange ideas as to how much they should or shouldn't pay for it lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by horizonhills View Post
    When they were RM 1.7m to RM 1.9M, I avoid cos I feel it is grossly overpriced. Now the resale are hitting RM 3million.
    I see your point. Fact of the matter is, as far as property goes, or any other asset class for that matter, any objective analysis will reveal upside or downside possibilities, regardless of prevailing market conditions.

    Best one can do is take the data in and come to a decision.

    I am very bullish about the long-term prospects for southern Johor, but very sceptical about property prices everywhere in East Asia and Australia for the short term.

    At the transacted prices you mention, it simply appears to me that prices have run up too fast, and too quickly. Unsustainably so for the short term.

    Lol, but then again, I've been reading this thread in full and I noticed scepticism about rising prices here in Nusajaya from 2 years ago. *shrug* Who really knows till well after it happens?

    ANyway I'm buying for immediate occupation, so I guess it doesn't really matter to me right now which way they go.

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