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Chitchat Koreans & Japanese Engineering and Pride

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yesterday had dinner with a French Naval Engineer and his wife. In the course of the conversation he expressed great admiration for Korean and Japanese engineering standards and particularly the pride across all ranks in completing their job. He had been stationed in both countries and cited example of their work, the grasp of engineering principles and they ability to challenge convention. He also said that many women worked in shipyards as skilled artisans, welders and technicians. Also said that as a workforce they were much better than the Europeans. He said that the Germans, French and the British have at the moment leadership over innovation and design and this is more towards their long history of democracy, transparency and freedom of expression. And this is also driven by individuals who are prepared to push their personal boundaries.

He said that that the Japan and Korea would eventually be on par with the Europeans on innovation and design.

3 things came out very clearly in the conversation - engineering prowess, pride in their job and the women doing skilled work in shipyards. Good to hear stories such as this. I was not aware of the role of women in this area of the workforce.

Also covered Singapore and his view was that we had positioned ourselves as a provider of services - office space, convenient hub for commercial work such as legal, and that our Military budget was major factor in bringing players as it was lucrative. I asked him about innovation, manufacturing and any specific fields that Singapore can do well in. He said that in his view, that does seem to be case the Govt is playing. He said that our history shows that we provide space (office, factories etc) and the labour but management, innovation etc are all in foreign hands and he does see that changing. I asked him about NUS and NTU. He said that any University is judged by the work and reputation of its graduates and he did cannot recall any graduates from either if these universities making their mark.
 

chongpangchixwings

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Leadership and innovation are lacking in Singapore. I would suggest that the education system largely inhibits these. An exceptional person may spring up every now and then but just looking at who helms MRT and other such Sinkie Corporations and you can see its mostly the exam smart yes men who are more capable leading soldiers rather than civilians.
If these are the best we can offer then surely we need foreign talent.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I suspect that our education is to force students to cover as much as possible. We do very well in international quiz etc but we stumble on home grown innovation. It was not lost to many that PM during the National Day Rally highlighted the case of the Indian born and raised couple that designed and built the bread machine.

It is also a factor of the commercial environment. We have allowed property development and speculation to be a mainstay of our commerce that those with money and entrepreneurship ended up in this field. The majority of CCC Chairman are not surprisingly from property development. Why would they take any risk in other areas of entrepreneurship.

The role of GLCs have to be questioned. No issues if they germinate business ideas or become incubators for innovation but they end up competing with SMEs as well.



Leadership and innovation are lacking in Singapore. I would suggest that the education system largely inhibits these. An exceptional person may spring up every now and then but just looking at who helms MRT and other such Sinkie Corporations and you can see its mostly the exam smart yes men who are more capable leading soldiers rather than civilians.
If these are the best we can offer then surely we need foreign talent.
 
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Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
I suspect that our education is to force students to cover as much as possible. We do very well in international quiz etc but we stumble on home grown innovation. It was not lost to many that PM during the National Day Rally highlighted the case of the Indian born and raised couple that designed and built the bread machine.

Singapore is a small country. It cannot be everything to everyone.

If you look at the USA you'll find that different cities have have evolved with different strengths for a variety of reasons. NYC's strengths are financial because of it's pedigree.

The Bay Area is the technology hot bed again because of its roots.

If NYC wanted to transform itself to compete with the West Coast it would be a long and painful transition which probably would fail.

Considering the fact the Singapore is only 50 years old it has done a remarkable job of reinventing itself from trading to manufacturing to services all within 4 and a bit decades. Credit has to be given to the government as these changes would never have evolved naturally.

Ultimately the people of Singapore have to decide, in collaboration with the government, what they are good at compared to the competition. It will take time but it will happen.
 

chongpangchixwings

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I suspect that our education is to force students to cover as much as possible. We do very well in international quiz etc but we stumble on home grown innovation. It was not lost to many that PM during the National Day Rally highlighted the case of the Indian born and raised couple that designed and built the bread machine.

It is also a factor of the commercial environment. We have allowed property development and speculation to be a mainstay of our commerce that those with money and entrepreneurship ended up in this field. The majority of CCC Chairman are not surprisingly from property development. Why would they take any risk in other areas of entrepreneurship.

The role of GLCs have to be questioned. No issues if they germinate business ideas or become incubators for innovation but they end up competing with SMEs as well.

Another factor that may inhibit the development of good entrepreneurial leadership is that of Singapore throwing money at problems instead of tackling it at the roots.
No Olympic champions? Easy just import foreign talent and hope for the best. No market leadership ? Well more of the same. We cannot rely on the occasional Joesph Schooling, JYM Pillay or Koh Boon Hwee to pop up. We need to identify and nurture our own citizens whom we identify as having the required talent.
Not easy to do but the alternative would be to forever rely on others.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Leadership and innovation are lacking in Singapore. I would suggest that the education system largely inhibits these. An exceptional person may spring up every now and then but just looking at who helms MRT and other such Sinkie Corporations and you can see its mostly the exam smart yes men who are more capable leading soldiers rather than civilians.
If these are the best we can offer then surely we need foreign talent.

The fat Super Civil servant that has just been cremated speaks volume about the system right?. They are just good at doing their job, in accordance to what is being scripted to them & they carry it out to the letter. They offer no new innovation or creativity or vast improvement to any systems or products....that is the talent & education of people in charge.

"JUST DOING THE JOB" & BRAGGING HOW GOOD THEY ARE....
 

chongpangchixwings

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The fat Super Civil servant that has just been cremated speaks volume about the system right?. They are just good at doing their job, in accordance to what is being scripted to them & they carry it out to the letter. They offer no new innovation or creativity or vast improvement to any systems or products....that is the talent & education of people in charge.

"JUST DOING THE JOB" & BRAGGING HOW GOOD THEY ARE....

Good followers and administrators but lacking in innovation and leadership.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Another factor that may inhibit the development of good entrepreneurial leadership is that of Singapore throwing money at problems instead of tackling it at the roots.
No Olympic champions? Easy just import foreign talent and hope for the best. No market leadership ? Well more of the same. We cannot rely on the occasional Joesph Schooling, JYM Pillay or Koh Boon Hwee to pop up. We need to identify and nurture our own citizens whom we identify as having the required talent.
Not easy to do but the alternative would be to forever rely on others.

How much money did Joseph Schooling parents spent nurturing him? & the risks they took...was upon them....if they lose , they lose alone & when they made it...the PAP jumped into the bandwagon & CLAIM GLORY....how encouraging is this to any, next Olympic Gold Medalists.....they are only interested in GLORY FOR THEMSELVES & not for the country SINGAPORE, the PAP that is.

Now you know why...we are sliding down the slope in terms of qualified, well educated work force too...the same principle of claiming Glory apply & everything else here...
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Good followers and administrators but lacking in innovation and leadership.

That is the talents we have & the people I worked with over the many years...no leadership quality that leads by example & no innovative ideas other than reading from the 'book' or applying the methods that is already there... the education system....
 

PretenderSam

Alfrescian
Loyal
Singapore is a small country. It cannot be everything to everyone.

If you look at the USA you'll find that different cities have have evolved with different strengths for a variety of reasons. NYC's strengths are financial because of it's pedigree.

The Bay Area is the technology hot bed again because of its roots.

If NYC wanted to transform itself to compete with the West Coast it would be a long and painful transition which probably would fail.

Considering the fact the Singapore is only 50 years old it has done a remarkable job of reinventing itself from trading to manufacturing to services all within 4 and a bit decades. Credit has to be given to the government as these changes would never have evolved naturally.

Ultimately the people of Singapore have to decide, in collaboration with the government, what they are good at compared to the competition. It will take time but it will happen.

you are absolutely correct. singapore is a small and young country that has been around for 50 years only. While germany , japan and others have a history of hundreds
of years.
the youtube below show how good the germans are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaatMqqr2ao

what singapore lacks in field of engineerings she more than make up for in showing creativity in designation of titles.
we are proud to have super ambassador , emeritus minister , admin specialist (in the army) . too many to be listed here.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Granted that Singapore is a small country and that it relatively has been greatly successful in many ways.

I think our role as a service hub and low tax locale will continue as it plays to our strength. We however cannot kid ourselves and I point to the PM's NDR on innovation and Jurong Innovation District. Looks at A*Star and the various polis and after 20 years. Lots of academic fraud, falsified data, nepotism and cronyism among the foreigners that we brought in. So lets not kid ourselves. But everything is buried under the carpet. Not single item of discovery of innovation except for process improvement etc . Critical mass is also not out strength.

Look at productivity and the use of manual labour even for pruning trees and hedges. In the 1st world countries it one by few men with machines.

Take the bicycle industry. The world's largest manufacturer is China but in value it its the Taiwanese. Its an industry that is began life 45 years ago. It now controls the high end. The Govt pumps millions of dollars into the industry to facilitate innovation because they get huge return. There is not a single GLC from Taiwan that is involved.

They now get most stuff manufactured in China but the focus back in taiwan is on innovation and their leadership position. Earlier this year I bought a pair of Giant cycling glove. I was impressed how well it was designed and manufactured. This is an offshoot of making bicycles.

Can we think of one Singapore innovation or product that is exported or well known everywhere except maybe Laksa?

Singapore is a small country. It cannot be everything to everyone.

If you look at the USA you'll find that different cities have have evolved with different strengths for a variety of reasons. NYC's strengths are financial because of it's pedigree.

The Bay Area is the technology hot bed again because of its roots.

If NYC wanted to transform itself to compete with the West Coast it would be a long and painful transition which probably would fail.

Considering the fact the Singapore is only 50 years old it has done a remarkable job of reinventing itself from trading to manufacturing to services all within 4 and a bit decades. Credit has to be given to the government as these changes would never have evolved naturally.

Ultimately the people of Singapore have to decide, in collaboration with the government, what they are good at compared to the competition. It will take time but it will happen.
 

Thick Face Black Heart

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Yesterday had dinner with a French Naval Engineer and his wife. In the course of the conversation he expressed great admiration for Korean and Japanese engineering standards and particularly the pride across all ranks in completing their job. He had been stationed in both countries and cited example of their work, the grasp of engineering principles and they ability to challenge convention. He also said that many women worked in shipyards as skilled artisans, welders and technicians. Also said that as a workforce they were much better than the Europeans. He said that the Germans, French and the British have at the moment leadership over innovation and design and this is more towards their long history of democracy, transparency and freedom of expression. And this is also driven by individuals who are prepared to push their personal boundaries.

He said that that the Japan and Korea would eventually be on par with the Europeans on innovation and design.

3 things came out very clearly in the conversation - engineering prowess, pride in their job and the women doing skilled work in shipyards. Good to hear stories such as this. I was not aware of the role of women in this area of the workforce.

Also covered Singapore and his view was that we had positioned ourselves as a provider of services - office space, convenient hub for commercial work such as legal, and that our Military budget was major factor in bringing players as it was lucrative. I asked him about innovation, manufacturing and any specific fields that Singapore can do well in. He said that in his view, that does seem to be case the Govt is playing. He said that our history shows that we provide space (office, factories etc) and the labour but management, innovation etc are all in foreign hands and he does see that changing. I asked him about NUS and NTU. He said that any University is judged by the work and reputation of its graduates and he did cannot recall any graduates from either if these universities making their mark.



I also cannot recall offhand any outstanding achievements from NUS/NTU graduates. They fit the mould of a cookie-cutter society and that's what we have evolved into. The only arena where a few Singaporeans have shown creativity is the arts scene, but it gets rapidly quashed by government funding issues and artists gets compromised.

Singapore resembles more a transit hub rather than a place where good ideas can get seeded and grow.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Granted that Singapore is a small country and that it relatively has been greatly successful in many ways.

I think our role as a service hub and low tax locale will continue as it plays to our strength. We however cannot kid ourselves and I point to the PM's NDR on innovation and Jurong Innovation District. Looks at A*Star and the various polis and after 20 years. Lots of academic fraud, falsified data, nepotism and cronyism among the foreigners that we brought in. So lets not kid ourselves. But everything is buried under the carpet. Not single item of discovery of innovation except for process improvement etc . Critical mass is also not out strength.

Look at productivity and the use of manual labour even for pruning trees and hedges. In the 1st world countries it one by few men with machines.

Take the bicycle industry. The world's largest manufacturer is China but in value it its the Taiwanese. Its an industry that is began life 45 years ago. It now controls the high end. The Govt pumps millions of dollars into the industry to facilitate innovation because they get huge return. There is not a single GLC from Taiwan that is involved.

They now get most stuff manufactured in China but the focus back in taiwan is on innovation and their leadership position. Earlier this year I bought a pair of Giant cycling glove. I was impressed how well it was designed and manufactured. This is an offshoot of making bicycles.

Can we think of one Singapore innovation or product that is exported or well known everywhere except maybe Laksa?

For 40 years I have been hearing the productivity song, the upgrading song, the whatever till you get tired & weary & wonder, what has it brought you? more Foreigners....the same old thing that you have to be productive or you will..... mind you this started in 1976, when the British pulled out of the Suez Canal... back then with the 'copy me' Japanese QC' circles & Japanese way of work, Taiwanese Methods of.....what progress had it brought us?

The same old shits.....with the same old government, devoid of any new, innovative ideas os their own..other than copy others...& fail terribly in copying too...

We need a drastic change....for the better...
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
I also cannot recall offhand any outstanding achievements from NUS/NTU graduates. They fit the mould of a cookie-cutter society and that's what we have evolved into.

That's not true I graduated from SU and went on to start Singapore's most successful on line sex hub which certainly didn't fit into any mould. In fact it was so far beyond the boundaries that it has been causing controversy from the day one.

The amount of venom and hatred that I have received in my in-box over the years would be enough to make any lesser mortal crumble. Luckily my idol LKY taught me to stand strong in the face of adversity so I have withstood the onslaught with my integrity intact.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think that is the point that TFBH was trying to make - a transit hub is similar in many ways to a portal where aggregated content is made for easy access for a fee.

That's not true I graduated from SU and went on to start Singapore's most successful on line sex hub which certainly didn't fit into any mould. In fact it was so far beyond the boundaries that it has been causing controversy from the day one.

The amount of venom and hatred that I have received in my in-box over the years would be enough to make any lesser mortal crumble. Luckily my idol LKY taught me to stand strong in the face of adversity so I have withstood the onslaught with my integrity intact.
 

Velma

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's a bit of an unfair comparison, considering Singapore is a melting pot of different cultures while the countries mentioned are homogenous in nature. Homogenous nations tend to be more advanced in most fields because they already possess cohesion among its citizens, while Singapore is just forcefully melded together and cohesion is still an issue at times
 

Velma

Alfrescian
Loyal
I also cannot recall offhand any outstanding achievements from NUS/NTU graduates. They fit the mould of a cookie-cutter society and that's what we have evolved into. The only arena where a few Singaporeans have shown creativity is the arts scene, but it gets rapidly quashed by government funding issues and artists gets compromised.

Singapore resembles more a transit hub rather than a place where good ideas can get seeded and grow.

Singapore has become a nice transit hub for Ang mos, Japanese and Koreans who can't make it back in their countries to live and reign like kings here
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
I think that is the point that TFBH was trying to make - a transit hub is similar in many ways to a portal where aggregated content is made for easy access for a fee.

"Aggregated" implies that content is taken from other sources and merely reproduced.

This forum here is a mixture of aggregated news and original content such as papsmearer's and yours.

The sex forum started off with 100% original content written by yours truly.
 

borom

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
When most of your top brains are co-opted into the uniform services and then parachuted mid career into high paying/cushy /well protected administrative jobs-what innovation do you expect?.

Worst still is to import hordes of low quality Pinoys, PRC's and Indian FTs with dubious qualifications like South Pacific University. Instead of
going up the value/technological chain we are actually on reverse gear-eg DBS relocating its IT to India-not Silicon Valley

Like many mentioned earlier, do not expect too much from a nation that earn its "wealth" mainly from increase in property prices -mostly via centralised "control" of land prices and supply and demand.
 
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