• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

Beijing can't base territorial claims on old maps: Manila

BuiKia

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
The Philippines has told an international tribunal that China cannot lay claim to the South China Sea based solely on historical facts and ancient maps.


In a note sent from The Hague, President Benigno Aquino's deputy spokesman Abigail Valte said Manila's lawyer Paul Reichler argued on Tuesday that China's "purported historic rights" over the strategic waterway "do not exist" under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

China had marked these "rights" with a nine-dash line that protrudes from China's southern Hainan island and loops towards Indonesia.

The line covers nearly all of the 3.5 million sq km South China Sea, even waters that are 1,611km away from the nearest Chinese land mass and nearer the borders of the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

These waters have become the stage for a rivalry between China and the United States, as the world's largest economic and military powers spar for political clout in the region.

The Philippines, unable to confront Chinese might in the high seas with its weak navy, filed a 4,000-page plea in March last year, asking the century-old Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague to declare China's nine-dash line as inconsistent with Unclos.

Another lawyer for the Philippines, Mr Andrew Loewenstein, said China, even if it had rights to the territories it claims, "failed to satisfy the requirements to establish (its claims)".

Mr Loewenstein argued that China had not been in "exclusive control for a long period of time" over the South China Sea.

He presented eight maps, one dating back to the Ming Dynasty, that showed the areas covered by China's nine-dash line had never been considered Chinese territories until now.

An expert witness, University of Miami law professor Bernard Oxman, told the tribunal China cannot claim maritime entitlements under Unclos from seven reefs in the Spratly archipelago in the southern half of the South China Sea that it has transformed into islands.

Chinese presence in these islands "encroaches on the rights of coastal states" and deprives the Philippines of its traditional fishing grounds, he said.

Tensions in the South China Sea have escalated after China stepped up its land reclamation efforts in the Spratly archipelago, where it has so far created islands with airstrips and mall-size garrisons.

The hearings in The Hague are being held behind closed doors, but observers from Singapore, Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam have been allowed.

China has refused to participate in the proceedings, but it has indirectly argued its case through a position paper.
 

kiwibird7

Alfrescian
Loyal
Wasn't the issue of PEDRA BANCRA lighthouse issue settled with historical documents including old maps by the INTERNATIONAL COURT?
Or better yet, POSSESSION is 9/10s of the law, the side which flexes bigger military muscle calls the shots; weaklings FO! Let the battlefield be the final arbiter.
Winner takes it all, loser stands to fall!
 

BuiKia

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
US is pulling the strings from behind. Of course Philippines is nothing but puppet.
 

numero uno

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Philippines has told an international tribunal that China cannot lay claim to the South China Sea based solely on historical facts and ancient maps.


In a note sent from The Hague, President Benigno Aquino's deputy spokesman Abigail Valte said Manila's lawyer Paul Reichler argued on Tuesday that China's "purported historic rights" over the strategic waterway "do not exist" under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

China had marked these "rights" with a nine-dash line that protrudes from China's southern Hainan island and loops towards Indonesia.

The line covers nearly all of the 3.5 million sq km South China Sea, even waters that are 1,611km away from the nearest Chinese land mass and nearer the borders of the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

These waters have become the stage for a rivalry between China and the United States, as the world's largest economic and military powers spar for political clout in the region.

The Philippines, unable to confront Chinese might in the high seas with its weak navy, filed a 4,000-page plea in March last year, asking the century-old Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague to declare China's nine-dash line as inconsistent with Unclos.

Another lawyer for the Philippines, Mr Andrew Loewenstein, said China, even if it had rights to the territories it claims, "failed to satisfy the requirements to establish (its claims)".

Mr Loewenstein argued that China had not been in "exclusive control for a long period of time" over the South China Sea.

He presented eight maps, one dating back to the Ming Dynasty, that showed the areas covered by China's nine-dash line had never been considered Chinese territories until now.

An expert witness, University of Miami law professor Bernard Oxman, told the tribunal China cannot claim maritime entitlements under Unclos from seven reefs in the Spratly archipelago in the southern half of the South China Sea that it has transformed into islands.

Chinese presence in these islands "encroaches on the rights of coastal states" and deprives the Philippines of its traditional fishing grounds, he said.

Tensions in the South China Sea have escalated after China stepped up its land reclamation efforts in the Spratly archipelago, where it has so far created islands with airstrips and mall-size garrisons.

The hearings in The Hague are being held behind closed doors, but observers from Singapore, Australia, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam have been allowed.

China has refused to participate in the proceedings, but it has indirectly argued its case through a position paper.
that's why there would be war as filipinos are stupid people. Cannot talk any sense with them . arrogant bastards like Edz Bello case. they cannot even control their abu sayyaff yet talk cock to China and hide behing uncle sam skirt. China just need 1 ICBM to nuke manila to prehisoric ages and filipinos wuould be like cavemen again. The americans are the greatest hypocrites in the world to talk peace. after they mess up the middle east and created isis, they left the europeans and the whole world to deal with the mess and crap they created. they should ahve left saddam hussein and gaddafi alone,
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In international geopolitics, might is right. When you have the might, you can use any argument – ancient maps, modern maps, de facto occupation or administration of territory, religion, myths & legends, whatever – to win your case.

When China was weak, the Western powers were busy slicing up its territory for themselves. Now that China has awakened it will reclaim all those lost territories. The Philippines can't do jack shit; the Americans are backing them up to a point, but they wouldn't want to get into a war with China when push comes to shove.
 

yellowarse

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
that's why there would be war as filipinos are stupid people. Cannot talk any sense with them . arrogant bastards like Edz Bello case. they cannot even control their abu sayyaff yet talk cock to China and hide behing uncle sam skirt. China just need 1 ICBM to nuke manila to prehisoric ages and filipinos wuould be like cavemen again. The americans are the greatest hypocrites in the world to talk peace. after they mess up the middle east and created isis, they left the europeans and the whole world to deal with the mess and crap they created. they should ahve left saddam hussein and gaddafi alone,

Well said. Americans are fair-weather friends – they'll be there for you when it's in their interests to do so, but they'll also be the first to abandon you when things go wrong. Before ISIS there was the Taleban, remember?
 

Froggy

Alfrescian (InfP) + Mod
Moderator
Generous Asset
Knnbccb lap sap Pinoy brain is full of shit if not use historical document then use what? Suka suka is it?
 

kiwibird7

Alfrescian
Loyal
Well said. Americans are fair-weather friends – they'll be there for you when it's in their interests to do so, but they'll also be the first to abandon you when things go wrong. Before ISIS there was the Taleban, remember?

The Yankees abandoned South Vietnam and let the low tech Vietcong win the war.
Pinoys with their leaky WW2 vintage PT boat navy are foolhardy to take on a blue water CHINESE NAVY/AIRFORCE.

Let's see what OBAMA would say if a F18 hornet got shot down flying into CHINA declared AIRSPACE in Spratly Islands since TURKEY can shoot down a SU 24 already! China also can say they gave 10 warnings in 5 minutes to the F18 hornet pilot producing an audio tape several days later.
 

syed putra

Alfrescian
Loyal
If based on historical claim is accepted, then red indians own US, aborigines own australia and singapore goes back to johore and it will go on and on never ending until cave maps are used as evidence.
historically, we already know that taiwan did not have chinese people on the island when portuguese and dutch landed there. the only people were the orang asli/dayak type of people who have no skills and not the type to work. so they brought in skilled chinese from the mainland. So taiwan too should be returned to the orang asli/dayak.

it was the arrogant Fidel Ramos who cancelled the lease of US navy and air bases in the philippines. Otherwise, there would be no issues today and philippines population can still survive from the trickling effect from the US service men.
 

syed putra

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Yankees abandoned South Vietnam and let the low tech Vietcong win the war.
Pinoys with their leaky WW2 vintage PT boat navy are foolhardy to take on a blue water CHINESE NAVY/AIRFORCE.

Let's see what OBAMA would say if a F18 hornet got shot down flying into CHINA declared AIRSPACE in Spratly Islands since TURKEY can shoot down a SU 24 already! China also can say they gave 10 warnings in 5 minutes to the F18 hornet pilot producing an audio tape several days later.
china territorial claim in south china sea is not recognised unlike turkey border.
Philippines not the war mongering types like the chinese people hence they did not invest not could be bothered about spending huge amounts on defence.
 

Leckmichamarsch

Alfrescian
Loyal
If based on historical claim is accepted, then red indians own US, aborigines own australia and singapore goes back to johore and it will go on and on never ending until cave maps are used as evidence.
historically, we already know that taiwan did not have chinese people on the island when portuguese and dutch landed there. the only people were the orang asli/dayak type of people who have no skills and not the type to work. so they brought in skilled chinese from the mainland. So taiwan too should be returned to the orang asli/dayak.

it was the arrogant Fidel Ramos who cancelled the lease of US navy and air bases in the philippines. Otherwise, there would be no issues today and philippines population can still survive from the trickling effect from the US service men.

Ramos wasn't greased enuf...........
 

3_M

Alfrescian
Loyal
PinoyLand claim to South China Sea was based on the 1982 UNCLOS which state that a country is entitle to 200nm of EEZ. But there is a constraint that this ruling doesn't alter the existing boundary and can't supersede any previous treaty regarding boundary. Like for instance if we signed UNCLOS, we cannot lay claim to sea around Riau as our EEZ since there was an existing boundary along the strait of singapore. The same goes for Indonesia.

So in order for Pinoy land to assert her claim under UNCLOS, she needs to discredit Beijing claim based on historical context.
 

PretenderSam

Alfrescian
Loyal
The British Indian Ocean Territory , once an individually controlled, widespread archipelago of over 2,300 small islands, is positioned in the Indian Ocean near the Equator.

Claimed in 1814, it was then established as a territory of the United Kingdom (UK) in 1965. In just over a decade later, many of the smaller islands were transferred (or given) to the Seychelles when it gained its own independence in 1976.

After that, transfer of the Chagos Archipelago was all that remained. The largest and most southerly of the islands, Diego Garcia.

Diego Garcia is a 17 sq. mile horseshoe-shaped atoll in the Indian Ocean's Chagos Archipelago.
During the Cold War, Britain agreed to lease Diego Garcia to the American military for the construction of a naval base on the island.
To make way for the base some 2,000 native Chagossians were forcibly removed from the island by the British government between 1968 and 1973. The islanders have since sued unsuccessfully for the right to return home.

During the deportations, British agents and members of a U.S. Navy construction battalion rounded up and killed all those pet dogs. Their owners were then deported to the western Indian Ocean islands of Mauritius and the Seychelles, 1,200 miles from their homeland, where they received no resettlement assistance.

The campaign of terror to forcibly remove the Chagossians began in the 1960s, during the British period of decolonization.
First, they tried to shoot the dogs. Next, they tried to poison them with strychnine. When both failed as efficient killing methods, British government agents and U.S. Navy personnel used raw meat to lure the pets into a sealed shed. Locking them inside, they gassed the howling animals with exhaust piped in from U.S. military vehicles. Then, setting coconut husks ablaze, they burned the dogs’ carcasses as their owners were left to watch and ponder their own fate.
 

enterprise2

Alfrescian
Loyal
Time for Greece and Portugal to start pulling out their dusty old maps. Yep! It's time to revive the Greek and Portugese empire!
 
Last edited:

PretenderSam

Alfrescian
Loyal
angmo the bestest !!

Exiled Chagos Islanders living in Britain and Mauritius have said they are "dumbstruck" by a European court ruling that it has no jurisdiction to examine their forced expulsion by the British government in the 1960s.

Their comments followed a decision by the European court of rights in Strasbourg which declared that the islanders "effectively renounced" their claims 30 years ago when they received compensation for resettlement from the UK authorities.
 

Think_PAP

Alfrescian
Loyal
For course they must REDRAW A NEW MAP in BLOOD. Annex Manila in 1 month sending 500,000 missiles and 25 division army. That's how it would work and objections will cease to be noisy. All civilized negotiations are Waste Of Time purely foolish.
 
Top