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Can God make mistakes?

Agoraphobic

Alfrescian
Loyal
There will be different views to this case here, the one we'd come across most likely is that this kid is spoilt and doesn't deserve to live. But whatever it is, his/her feelings were extreme enough to drive him to suicide. We will feel for him if he was a family member or other relation. At the end of the day, my question is, "Should we have more control over our lives? Or should we let "God" decide?"

Cheers!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...sex-by-Christian-parents-commits-suicide.html

US teenager refused permission to change sex by Christian parents commits suicide

Death of "Leelah" Josh Alcorn, 17, who was told “God doesn’t make mistakes”, sparks calls to outlaw religious conversion therapies
By Peter Foster, Washington
5:41PM GMT 01 Jan 2015

A teenage boy who committed suicide when his devoutly Christian parents rejected his request to become a woman has sparked a fresh debate over how to handle children with gender identity issues.
Leelah Alcorn – who was born “Josh” – threw himself under the wheels of a lorry near his home outside Cincinnati, Ohio at 2.00am last Sunday leaving behind a bitter and impassioned suicide note about his experience.
“I feel like a girl trapped in a boy’s body, and I’ve felt that way ever since I was 4,” the 17-year-old wrote, “I never knew there was a word for that feeling, nor was it possible for a boy to become a girl, so I never told anyone and I just continued to do traditionally “boyish” things to try to fit in."
When he was 14, the teenager recalled, he had “cried with happiness” after he had discovered the existence of other transgender people, but was rejected by his mother, Carla, who said the desire to become a girl was “a phase” and that “God doesn’t make mistakes”.
Even after the suicide, Mrs Alcorn appeared unable to accept that her male child wanted to become female.
“We don't support that, religiously,” she told CNN, her voice cracking. “But we told him that we loved him unconditionally. We loved him no matter what. I loved my son. People need to know that I loved him. He was a good kid, a good boy.”
The 1,000-word suicide note has raised fresh questions about the use of “conversion therapy”, the practice among religious groups of trying to teach gay, lesbian or transgender people to overcome their desires through religious devotion.
Leelah Alcorn, as the boy asked to be called, said that after coming out, his mother had pulled him out of school, shut down his phone and social media accounts “completely isolating me from my friends” in order that he could become “their perfect little straight Christian boy, and that’s obviously not what I wanted.”
“My mom started taking me to a therapist, but would only take me to Christian therapists, (who were all very biased) so I never actually got the therapy I needed to cure me of my depression," he wrote. "I only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help."
Reaching the end of the note, Leelah explained why “I feel like killing myself” saying he could not face living either as a “lonely man” or an even “lonelier woman” who hated herself.
“There’s no winning. There’s no way out. I’m sad enough already, I don’t need my life to get any worse. People say “it gets better” but that isn’t true in my case. It gets worse. Each day I get worse. That’s the gist of it, that’s why I feel like killing myself.”
Signing off as “(Leelah) Josh Alcorn”, he ended by urging that her death should be used to try and humanise the difficulties faced by children like him.
“My death needs to be counted in the number of transgender people who commit suicide this year. I want someone to look at that number and say “that’s f***ed up” and fix it. Fix society. Please. Goodbye.”
His story was rapidly picked up and used by transgender help-groups to highlight the need for a more understanding approach to children with gender dysphoria.
There are few reliable statistics on transgender suicides. However the group Everything Transgender in New York City (ETNYC) released a report in 2014 which said that 58 per cent of families rejected transgender people and that among the rejected there was a 41 per cent suicide rate.
“The suicide of Ms. Alcorn tells us that we will have a lot of work to do in the community to greatly reduce these statistics,” the group said in a statement.
A petition posted on the Change.org website calling on Congress to enact a “Leelah’s law” banning the use of conversion therapy had attracted more than 130,000 signatures on Wednesday.
Debi Jackson of the Trans-Parenting help group said she understood the struggle of religious families when faced with a transgender child, but urged tolerance and understanding.
“These kids are not broken, and they don’t need to be fixed," she said. "Many denominations and churches open their arms to transgender individuals, so even the most religious families can find the support they need without resorting to such brutal behaviors as conversion therapy.
“It has proven time and time again to be a deadly practice. Our children deserve better. They deserve to be accepted for who they are, exactly as God created them.”
 

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Want to change sex, go earn some dole first and be independent. When you reach 18 and can support yourself, you can change your sex into a dog or cow, even your parents cannot stop you.
 

Agoraphobic

Alfrescian
Loyal
This I fully agree with you. It is your decision, you have to be able to sponsor yourself if no one else wishes to.

Cheers!

................... When you reach 18 and can support yourself, you can change your sex into a dog or cow, even your parents cannot stop you.
 

sochi2014

Alfrescian
Loyal
God doesn't make mistakes. He is perfect. It is us humans with our own free will who made all of them. First Eve eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge. Next brother killing one another in Cain and Abel. Next the destruction of sinful mankind during Noah's Ark...until now ISIS. All because of FREE WILL.

At least when you are gay you can change to straight. Buy changing sex is a bit tricky because it is difficult to go back. At least he dies he goes to heaven. Still win win situation. Our presence on earth is just temporary. Dun get too upset about it.
 
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Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
There will be different views to this case here, the one we'd come across most likely is that this kid is spoilt and doesn't deserve to live. But whatever it is, his/her feelings were extreme enough to drive him to suicide. We will feel for him if he was a family member or other relation. At the end of the day, my question is, "Should we have more control over our lives? Or should we let "God" decide?"

Cheers!

The truth is that we do not have much control over our lives. We cannot even guarantee we will wake up in the morning! We can make decisions that affect our lives, but if we think we can have control of our lives, we are mistaken. That does not mean we take a fatalistic view of life, but that we take a realistic, and I would add, a Biblical view of life.
 

Agoraphobic

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Loyal
As humans, it is logical we do what we can to change/improve our lives. Are you saying that if we fall ill, or are injured in an accident, we simply do nothing an let god decide our "fate"? Do we reject vaccinations for TB, smallpox, polio and other viral infections because it is God's will? I for one am will not always head straight for the bottle of aspirin/panadol if I have a headache, but most people would, it is logical. We may not have total control over our lives, but we are making progress as time goes by. We do what we can. It is a human thing, not a biblical thing.

Cheers!

The truth is that we do not have much control over our lives. We cannot even guarantee we will wake up in the morning! We can make decisions that affect our lives, but if we think we can have control of our lives, we are mistaken. That does not mean we take a fatalistic view of life, but that we take a realistic, and I would add, a Biblical view of life.
 

Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
As humans, it is logical we do what we can to change/improve our lives. Are you saying that if we fall ill, or are injured in an accident, we simply do nothing an let god decide our "fate"? Do we reject vaccinations for TB, smallpox, polio and other viral infections because it is God's will? I for one am will not always head straight for the bottle of aspirin/panadol if I have a headache, but most people would, it is logical. We may not have total control over our lives, but we are making progress as time goes by. We do what we can. It is a human thing, not a biblical thing.

Cheers!

I wonder where you get the idea that I am advocating doing nothing to improve our lives. That's a strawman argument. I am simply saying that it is mistaken to think we have control over our lives. To see humanity through Biblical lenses would be the right way to live. Which is that God made Adam perfect, but Adam sinned, and we are all in Adam, and so this world is corrupted, and man is sinful. Man needs a redeemer, and this is found in the perfect God-Man Jesus who died for our sins on the cross. Those who trust in Jesus will inherit eternal life and are to live a life that is in obedience to the Gospel, awaiting the hope of the resurrection when all things will be make right.
 

Agoraphobic

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Loyal
Ok. Sorry I misread you.

BTW, on a different tone, Adam didn't sin as far as I am concerned, he was doing what any man would do. Just too bad for him that the authority didn't see it that way.:confused:

Cheers!

I wonder where you get the idea that I am advocating doing nothing to improve our lives. That's a strawman argument. I am simply saying that it is mistaken to think we have control over our lives. To see humanity through Biblical lenses would be the right way to live. Which is that God made Adam perfect, but Adam sinned, and we are all in Adam, and so this world is corrupted, and man is sinful. Man needs a redeemer, and this is found in the perfect God-Man Jesus who died for our sins on the cross. Those who trust in Jesus will inherit eternal life and are to live a life that is in obedience to the Gospel, awaiting the hope of the resurrection when all things will be make right.
 

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
i wonder where you get the idea that i am advocating doing nothing to improve our lives. That's a strawman argument. I am simply saying that it is mistaken to think we have control over our lives. To see humanity through biblical lenses would be the right way to live. Which is that god made adam perfect, but adam sinned, and we are all in adam, and so this world is corrupted, and man is sinful. Man needs a redeemer, and this is found in the perfect god-man jesus who died for our sins on the cross. Those who trust in jesus will inherit eternal life and are to live a life that is in obedience to the gospel, awaiting the hope of the resurrection when all things will be make right.


fuck you!......i am god and i didn't say all that shit.
 

Frodo

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Loyal
Ok. Sorry I misread you.

BTW, on a different tone, Adam didn't sin as far as I am concerned, he was doing what any man would do. Just too bad for him that the authority didn't see it that way.:confused:

Cheers!

I think you are not seeing things in the right perspective. Sin is not what you choose to define. Sin is disobeying God's law. And God had only ONE prohibition for Adam in the Garden. Adam wasn't ignorant, or stupid. He knew what God commanded, and he disobeyed. It's not about what anyone would do, it's about what anyone SHOULD do.
 

Agoraphobic

Alfrescian
Loyal
What is the "right" perspective? Sin is when one intrudes into someone else rights or property. Adam, in this story wasn't hurting, cheating, deceiving anybody, just obliging his partner. In this story, God is the unreasonable bloke here. Not a compassionate, or a forgiving being as described by his earth-bound "son" who came much later.

Why does God forbid eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge? God doesn't want people to have knowledge?

Cheers!

I think you are not seeing things in the right perspective. Sin is not what you choose to define. Sin is disobeying God's law. And God had only ONE prohibition for Adam in the Garden. Adam wasn't ignorant, or stupid. He knew what God commanded, and he disobeyed. It's not about what anyone would do, it's about what anyone SHOULD do.
 

Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
What is the "right" perspective? Sin is when one intrudes into someone else rights or property. Adam, in this story wasn't hurting, cheating, deceiving anybody, just obliging his partner. In this story, God is the unreasonable bloke here. Not a compassionate, or a forgiving being as described by his earth-bound "son" who came much later.

Why does God forbid eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge? God doesn't want people to have knowledge?

Cheers!

The right perspective would be to see things from God's perspective.

Sin is "missing the mark", which means failing to live up to God's standard. Adam's action was a direct intention to disobey, and in the process the entire creation is corrupted. Relationship between God and man is affected, and between man and woman. Adam's action was not without dire consequences.

To accuse God of withholding knowledge is a false accusation. Was Adam without knowledge? Nope. He knew all that God had wanted him to know. He had all that he needed to thrive in the Garden of Eden. Life was perfect in paradise for him. The tree was there as a test of obedience. You can read for yourself what the Bible says. Adam ate from the tree, what did he gain from that?
 

Agoraphobic

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Loyal
To be able to see things from God's vantage, it helps to be in God's position.

Going by the story, Adam attained knowledge, and led him to develop agriculture, medicines, materials, understand the physical around,and adapt/adjust to live in that. For reason(s) unknown to us, God forbade that. Maybe God should have created a more obedient being.

Cheers!

The right perspective would be to see things from God's perspective.

Sin is "missing the mark", which means failing to live up to God's standard. Adam's action was a direct intention to disobey, and in the process the entire creation is corrupted. Relationship between God and man is affected, and between man and woman. Adam's action was not without dire consequences.

To accuse God of withholding knowledge is a false accusation. Was Adam without knowledge? Nope. He knew all that God had wanted him to know. He had all that he needed to thrive in the Garden of Eden. Life was perfect in paradise for him. The tree was there as a test of obedience. You can read for yourself what the Bible says. Adam ate from the tree, what did he gain from that?
 

Frodo

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Loyal
To be able to see things from God's vantage, it helps to be in God's position.

Going by the story, Adam attained knowledge, and led him to develop agriculture, medicines, materials, understand the physical around,and adapt/adjust to live in that. For reason(s) unknown to us, God forbade that. Maybe God should have created a more obedient being.

Cheers!

No need to be in God's position when the Bible already stated things clearly, right?

Your view is wrong. Adam did not attain those knowledge you speak of as a result of eating from the forbidden tree. Don't forget that he was already given the cultural mandate to have dominion of God's created order BEFORE he ate from the tree. Adam did not lack anything to do what he was supposed to do, procreate and to exercise dominion as God's appointed agent.
 

Agoraphobic

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Loyal
The Bible may have lots of lessons in it, but there are much more things for us to learn and discover which it does not cover. Before he ate the fruit, he wore no clothes, only had a fig leaf to cover his "private" parts, but after that, he learned to weave cloth to make clothes, and progressed since then to even manufacture Spandex for fashionable sports attire. We are glad he disobeyed God and discovered science. I don't think he had pizza in the Garden of Eden either. All these came as a result of him striking out on his own! In God's dominion, life was pretty spartan, Adam was a more sophisticated animal than what God wanted him to be.

Cheers!

No need to be in God's position when the Bible already stated things clearly, right?

Your view is wrong. Adam did not attain those knowledge you speak of as a result of eating from the forbidden tree. Don't forget that he was already given the cultural mandate to have dominion of God's created order BEFORE he ate from the tree. Adam did not lack anything to do what he was supposed to do, procreate and to exercise dominion as God's appointed agent.
 

Frodo

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Bible may have lots of lessons in it, but there are much more things for us to learn and discover which it does not cover. Before he ate the fruit, he wore no clothes, only had a fig leaf to cover his "private" parts, but after that, he learned to weave cloth to make clothes, and progressed since then to even manufacture Spandex for fashionable sports attire. We are glad he disobeyed God and discovered science. I don't think he had pizza in the Garden of Eden either. All these came as a result of him striking out on his own! In God's dominion, life was pretty spartan, Adam was a more sophisticated animal than what God wanted him to be.

Cheers!

Sorry but it looks like you are mistaken. Adam wore no fig leaves prior to his sinning against God. The fig leaves wardrobe disaster was what he and Eve tried to do after they sinned and discovered they were naked and felt ashamed. Sin corrupts and distorts nakedness, so now lust becomes an issue. God was the one who killed an animal and made clothes of skin, which is a picture that a covering for sin requires the shedding of blood. To be happy that Adam disobeyed shows a rather warped view of things, sorry about that. It is calling evil good and good evil. I would urge you to read the Bible carefully and note what effects that disobedience brought to the world. Adam's disobedience brought in death and suffering. It did not usher in anything good.
 

kryonlight

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Adam's disobedience brought in death and suffering.

Sorry but it looks like you are mistaken. Birth is the cause of death and suffering. Anyone with eyes to see will attest to this unchanging truth. You don't need a story book about a fictional Adam to tell you that.
 

Frodo

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Sorry but it looks like you are mistaken. Birth is the cause of death and suffering. Anyone with eyes to see will attest to this unchanging truth. You don't need a story book about a fictional Adam to tell you that.

Please explain how birth is the cause of death and suffering.
 
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