• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

German Carmakers Diu LTA for Extra Dynamometer Test. SGs to Pay $1k For It!

makapaaa

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
[h=2]German carmakers: We’re being called liars by LTA[/h]

dmca_protected_sml_120n.png
PostDateIcon.png
July 29th, 2014 |
PostAuthorIcon.png
Author: Editorial




Chew-Hock-Yong.png

CEO of LTA, Chew Hock Yong. He has held appointments in
the MINDEF, the Ministry of Communications, MHA, MOF, and MCDYS. He was a key
member of the Bid Committee that won the right for Singapore to host the
inaugural YOG in 2010 and played a key role in hosting the Games. He graduated
from the University of Tokyo with a Bachelor of Engineering (Naval Architecture)
and received a Master of Science in Management from Stanford
University.


A new car test required by LTA to verify the engine power of cars before they
can be sold in Singapore is turning into a potential trade issue between
Singapore and Germany.

The media reported today (29 Jul) that German carmakers are raising concerns
with the Singapore Government about the so-called dynamometer test, which the
Germans said runs counter to a proposed free trade agreement (FTA) between
Singapore and the EU.


According to a draft of the EU-Singapore FTA, “Singapore shall accept on its
market as compliant with its domestic technical regulations and conformity
assessment procedures, without further testing or… requirements to verify”
vehicles that have already been approved by EU regulators.


But LTA is imposing the extra dynamometer test to ascertain the power of the
vehicles themselves, even though the carmakers and dealers have already
submitted the specifications of their car models.

Spokesman for the Singapore-German Chamber of Industry and Commerce’s (SGC)
automotive committee Klaus Landhaeusser said, “We don’t understand why this
dynamometer test is necessary.”

He said it will delay the arrival of new cars and add to costs. Each
dynamometer test is expected to cost between $500 and $1,000, and 30 to 40 cars
are expected to be tested each year.


“As businesses, we’re concerned with how the new regulation was introduced,
and what else will come later,” he added.

Mr Jeff Mannering, managing director of Audi Singapore, which is a member of
the SGC, said, “Basically, we’re being called liars.”

Members of SGC and a senior German government official are in talks with MTI.
However, MTI pushed the matter to MOT and MOT to LTA.

Mr Landhaeusser said, “(Trade and Industry) Minister Lim (Hng Kiang) was very
supportive. He referred us to the Ministry of Transport, which told us the Land
Transport Authority (LTA) will get back to us on this.”


MTI told the media that the engine power verification requirement “is
consistent with Singapore’s FTA obligations”.

Dynamometer test may affect budget cars

In June, LTA announced that cars meant to be classified under the Category A
certificate of entitlement (COE) will need to be tested to verify the engine
power outputs declared by their manufacturers.

From October, cars producing between 81kW and 97kW in engine power will have
to undergo Dynamometer test to ascertain their power.

The current Category A classification states that besides a 1,600cc cap on
engine size, cars in Category A must not produce more than 97kW.

Some budget car dealers are worried that their cars may be classified as
premium models (Category B) after going through the test. This will affect the
selling prices of budget cars since a Category B COE is usually pricier than the
Category A one.

The budget car dealers are worried because their engine power output is close
to the 97kW cap. Category A cars whose engine power is close to 97kW
include:


  • Kia Forte K3
  • Hyundai Elantra
  • Hyundai i30
  • Toyota Corolla Altis
  • Honda Civic
  • Honda Jazz
  • Ford Focus
  • Volkswagen Jetta

LTA instituted the test after some premium European car models, including
Mercedes, brought in by dealers produced slightly less than 97kW. The dealers
were attempting to circumvent the Category A’s power regulation so as to get
these premium models qualify for Category A.

This is the first time that vehicle data has been challenged this way. As a
result, it will take up to four months before a new model can be approved for
sale – against one to four weeks previously.

Car dealers described the move as “disruptive”, “arbitrary” and “unilateral”.
They also warned that some budget cars might fail to meet the power cap and
would thus be placed in Category B. This would nullify efforts to separate
budget cars from premium ones.

One car dealer said, “How did we end up in this blind alley? We all gave
feedback that engine power was not a suitable criterion, and now, we’re trying
to find fixes.”


Dealers said the process would also raise operating costs, as cars would
spend more time in storage before they could be sold. Moreover, there is still
the cost of the dynamometer test which will definitely be passed on to the
consumers in the end.


Others said that the dynamometer test results could vary depending on the
type of fuel, tyres, wheels and gearbox. Even the air temperature and how warmed
up the engine is can affect the test results. Thus, for budget cars whose engine
power is close to 97kW, they may fail the Category A’s power regulation during
the tests.


With regard to LTA’s move to test the power of cars, TRE readers commented
(‘LTA’s
criterion for categorising cars deeply flawed
‘):


OMV should be used: Stupid to use power to categorise
cars. If the objective is to put the more pricey continental cars or larger cars
in Cat B then it is best to use OMV categorise cars.


LIONS: LTA – LAME TRANSPORT AGENCY thinks too highly of
itself. The MIWs there are no more smarter than those in other
agencies?


Useless & hippocrate: This lta has the worst
attitude workers inside where all Engineer/managers always trying to suck
citizens dry when they can to show their boss how much they are worth. Infact
they are useless and worst ppl you can find. What euro 1 to 4 then 5 then 6. All
craps design to come up but infact we know all cars/trucks etc still giving
black smoke like them. What coe la, also another crap when all road also jams by
now.


VOTE out the TOXIC PAP please!: These are the sort of
super talents and EXTREME brains the letter is directing his comments too. And
mind you USELESS PAP policies are subjected to changes and changes, which they
CALLED as fine tunings or refinements.


leveller: Who is in charge of LTA = Liu TUCK Yew,Liu
should TUCK all his useless forkers in LTA those drawing a huge salary &
contribution nothing of economic value but causing & adding to the high
costs of owning vehicles in Singapore!


Nabeh: Only people as goondu as Lui and his schoolars in
LTA have not heard of after-market engine enhancement and engine tuning. This
new scheme will encourage car manufacturers to dump their less efficient and
more pollutive engines and components on the Singapore market. No wonder Lui got
chased away from the Moulmein condo like a ***** *** during the last GE.

 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
This is really dumb.

All that is needed is to reduce the power by programming the ECU before export and then just plug in a laptop and re program before delivery to the customer.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Another MONEY MAKING IDEA from the MIW, they give you PIONEER packages etc...they take back more than hey giver...SINgporeans (60%) are you listening??
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
sg has a uniquely large after-market mod, remod, enhancement, and retuning industry, as a result of this dumb engine power criterion to separate cat a from cat b autos. it's probably the only cuntry on the planet where a car buyer buys an "underpowered" luxury model (typically with 4 cylinders) and "souped" it up with turbochargers and other enhancements after-market at a mod shop. the overall hp after mod is equivalent to if not greater than 6-cylinder models sold at dealerships. for that lower price between cat a and cat b, sinkies would go the distance and the trouble to own and show off their german luxury models, albeit with pre-mod engine sizes and power of jap and korean "economy" and "compact" models. sinkies at their very best in showmanship again. :rolleyes: :p
 

@rmadill0

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fucking idiots this LTA. Doing things that served no purpose and pissed people off.

Things like making the public transport system better they don't do, but meddle with such things that is just plain stupid.
 

escher

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
This is really dumb.

All that is needed is to reduce the power by programming the ECU before export and then just plug in a laptop and re program before delivery to the customer.

Dumb bastards who only know how to tieu and kan and fuck people head down down and arseholes up high high and laugh all the way to their banks and moral filths.
The only useful thing that they can do is to dance under lamp posts


Plotzensee_nooses.jpg



Hang those PAP maggots cockroaches with piano wires from lamp posts to make them dance before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
BBQ those PAP maggots cockroaches before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
Cut a few more arseholes into those PAP maggots cockroaches to let out their shit before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
Make those PAP maggots cockroaches eat joss sticks and candle wax before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
 

numero uno

Alfrescian
Loyal
Fucking idiots this LTA. Doing things that served no purpose and pissed people off.

Things like making the public transport system better they don't do, but meddle with such things that is just plain stupid.

this useless LTA CEO is one stupid fellow from mindef. all his policies are cr@p. this cat A/B COE just show how stupid he is. anotehr one is the VEP whhich has backfire and now caused alot of hardship to everyone and make the malaysian tulan and seek revenge. all because of one man stupidity
 

soIsee

Alfrescian
Loyal
this useless LTA CEO is one stupid fellow from mindef. all his policies are cr@p. this cat A/B COE just show how stupid he is. anotehr one is the VEP whhich has backfire and now caused alot of hardship to everyone and make the malaysian tulan and seek revenge. all because of one man stupidity

Stupid?

Scholar leh! Hahahahahaha
 

Cerebral

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
sg has a uniquely large after-market mod, remod, enhancement, and retuning industry, as a result of this dumb engine power criterion to separate cat a from cat b autos. it's probably the only cuntry on the planet where a car buyer buys an "underpowered" luxury model (typically with 4 cylinders) and "souped" it up with turbochargers and other enhancements after-market at a mod shop. the overall hp after mod is equivalent to if not greater than 6-cylinder models sold at dealerships. for that lower price between cat a and cat b, sinkies would go the distance and the trouble to own and show off their german luxury models, albeit with pre-mod engine sizes and power of jap and korean "economy" and "compact" models. sinkies at their very best in showmanship again. :rolleyes: :p

I hope you do realise that horsepower is not everything. A luxury car is not determined by the HP but by the NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) and of course the smoothness of the engine, handling, etc...

Even Japanese cars have 4 to 5 litre models, but do you classify them as luxury???

By the way, Mercedes has been installing superchargers into their cars for ages. The reason for the lower cc engines is not for SG market but for emission controls in Europe.
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Mr Jeff Mannering, managing director of Audi Singapore, said:

"Basically, we are being called liars."

ST July 29
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I hope you do realise that horsepower is not everything. A luxury car is not determined by the HP but by the NVH (Noise, Vibration & Harshness) and of course the smoothness of the engine, handling, etc...

Even Japanese cars have 4 to 5 litre models, but do you classify them as luxury???

By the way, Mercedes has been installing superchargers into their cars for ages. The reason for the lower cc engines is not for SG market but for emission controls in Europe.

very good reply. smaller engines in german luxury cars for the euro market fit the demands of the sg market perfectly, i.e. if they are sold at cat a prices. but sinkies who drool over a merc, beemer, or audi will "soup" them up after-market nonetheless, thus the proliferation of mod shops. nvh factors play a major role as sg is the only place on the planet where i see more e-class chassis with small engines than c-class chassis, and more 5-series with small engines than 3-series.
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
this useless LTA CEO is one stupid fellow from mindef. all his policies are cr@p. this cat A/B COE just show how stupid he is. anotehr one is the VEP whhich has backfire and now caused alot of hardship to everyone and make the malaysian tulan and seek revenge. all because of one man stupidity

Two men's stupidity - this idiot and his Idiotic Minister who does not watch porn. (Seemingly)
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
I guess no one on this thread knows anything about cars. Lets just say that one of the cars that I own is a brand that is a favourite of tuners. The Germans are right, and MOT, MTI, LTA, etc all of them know nuts about cars. When the Germans sell you a car, the engine power quoted on their brochure is that of the engine itself. The dyno does not measure this, it measures the power at the wheels. The power at the wheels will always be less than the power at the engine. Engine power is lost going to the drive train on the way to the wheels. By the time it gets to the wheels, the loss can be up to 15% for manual transmission cars and 20% for automatic transmission. Therefore, when the LTA measures a German car's "engine" power using a dyno, it is actually measuring the wheel power. This number will always be less. That is why the Germans don't understand why LTA is doing this, other than as a money grab.

For example, a BMW 3 series with a 1,600cc engine will produce 100kW measured at the engine. But when LTA puts the dyno on it, it could be only 80kW at the wheels. So, in this case, LTA thinks that the Germans are cheating because the engine they think will produce more than 97kW, they will be in for a shock when they see that it only produces as little as 80kW. Furthermore, all specs of the car used in the brochures cannot be lies, or they open themselves up for lawsuits, and even worse, damage their reputation. If BMW sells cars with stated output of 100kW at the engine, and it turns out that it was only 85kW at the engine, their reputation lost is not worth the lies.

Its unbelievable that some govt agency collects billions in COE, road tax, etc. and yet knows nothing about cars.
 

Papsmearer

Alfrescian (InfP) - Comp
Generous Asset
This is really dumb.

All that is needed is to reduce the power by programming the ECU before export and then just plug in a laptop and re program before delivery to the customer.

You cannot do that or LTA will know right away you are cheating. When the Germans send their cars to LTA for dyno testing, the LTA will already have in their possession information on the cars's power output thru their website and sales brochure. The power therefore better match what it says in the marketing materials. But if they change the chip after passing the dyno test, they have to also change the marketing material when they sell it to the customer to reflect the higher output from the tuned chip. LTA will for sure catch this trick.

In any case, the dyno test measures power at the wheel, not engine. Hence it will always be less than what the stated engine power is. No need to resort to these tuning tricks. U better stick to PAP cocksucking, u know shit about cars.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
You cannot do that or LTA will know right away you are cheating. When the Germans send their cars to LTA for dyno testing, the LTA will already have in their possession information on the cars's power output thru their website and sales brochure. The power therefore better match what it says in the marketing materials. But if they change the chip after passing the dyno test, they have to also change the marketing material when they sell it to the customer to reflect the higher output from the tuned chip. LTA will for sure catch this trick.

In any case, the dyno test measures power at the wheel, not engine. Hence it will always be less than what the stated engine power is. No need to resort to these tuning tricks. U better stick to PAP cocksucking, u know shit about cars.

Based on the article, there's an upper limit but not a lower limit.

Specs vary from country to country too. There is no one universal spec sheet for all markets.

The ECU settings on the car I use for track days bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original specifications.
 

Leckmichamarsch

Alfrescian
Loyal
Another MONEY MAKING IDEA from the MIW, they give you PIONEER packages etc...they take back more than hey giver...SINgporeans (60%) are you listening??

WTF........... such test oredi cleared by TUV in Germany which TUV / SPRING recognises....................
 

Leckmichamarsch

Alfrescian
Loyal
Based on the article, there's an upper limit but not a lower limit.

Specs vary from country to country too. There is no one universal spec sheet for all markets.

The ECU settings on the car I use for track days bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original specifications.

U old boy from STK?
 

LEGEND

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
"CEO of LTA, Chew Hock Yong. He has held appointments in
the MINDEF, the Ministry of Communications, MHA, MOF, and MCDYS. He was a key
member of the Bid Committee that won the right for Singapore to host the
inaugural YOG in 2010 and played a key role in hosting the Games. He graduated
from the University of Tokyo with a Bachelor of Engineering (Naval Architecture)
and received a Master of Science in Management from Stanford
University."

Isn't it the one we overspent with no regrets from Vivian Balakuku. :kma:
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I guess no one on this thread knows anything about cars. Lets just say that one of the cars that I own is a brand that is a favourite of tuners. The Germans are right, and MOT, MTI, LTA, etc all of them know nuts about cars. When the Germans sell you a car, the engine power quoted on their brochure is that of the engine itself. The dyno does not measure this, it measures the power at the wheels. The power at the wheels will always be less than the power at the engine. Engine power is lost going to the drive train on the way to the wheels. By the time it gets to the wheels, the loss can be up to 15% for manual transmission cars and 20% for automatic transmission. Therefore, when the LTA measures a German car's "engine" power using a dyno, it is actually measuring the wheel power. This number will always be less. That is why the Germans don't understand why LTA is doing this, other than as a money grab.

For example, a BMW 3 series with a 1,600cc engine will produce 100kW measured at the engine. But when LTA puts the dyno on it, it could be only 80kW at the wheels. So, in this case, LTA thinks that the Germans are cheating because the engine they think will produce more than 97kW, they will be in for a shock when they see that it only produces as little as 80kW. Furthermore, all specs of the car used in the brochures cannot be lies, or they open themselves up for lawsuits, and even worse, damage their reputation. If BMW sells cars with stated output of 100kW at the engine, and it turns out that it was only 85kW at the engine, their reputation lost is not worth the lies.

Its unbelievable that some govt agency collects billions in COE, road tax, etc. and yet knows nothing about cars.

These LTA clowns are idiots to boot.
Except when it comes to devising the most complex system to buy a car in Singapore.
Try telling an newly arrived expat on the layers and layers of add-ons if he wants to buy a car in Singapore.
 
Top