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The Double Slit Experiment & Buddhism's Interpretation.

kryonlight

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[video=youtube;UMqtiFX_IQQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqtiFX_IQQ[/video]


What does quantum physics teach us about the concept of physical reality?
http://www.physics.ox.ac.uk/users/polkinghorne2010/pdf/healey.pdf

When the layman says "reality" he usually thinks that he is speaking of something which is
self-evidently known; while to me it appears to be specifically the most important and
extremely difficult task of our time to work on the elaboration of a new idea of reality.

(Wolfgang Pauli, in a letter to Markus Fierz dated 12th August 1948)

2.2 Bohr on physical reality

Bohr thought quantum theory made Einstein’s characterization of physical reality obsolete.
Already in the transcript of the Como lecture in which he introduced the idea of
complementarity he wrote “the quantum postulate implies that any observation of atomic
phenomena will involve an interaction with the agency of observation not to be neglected.
Accordingly, an independent reality in the ordinary physical sense can neither be ascribed to
the phenomena nor to the agencies of observation.”
(“The quantum postulate and the recent
development of atomic theory” (Nature 121 (1928), p.580) So he took the quantum postulate
to imply that any attempt by physics to “grasp reality as it is thought independently of its
being observed” is doomed to failure, thus rendering Einstein’s sense of ‘physical reality’
vacuous.

But I think an equally important reason why Einstein and (later) Bell were
unable to make much of Bohr’s doctrine of complementarity was that their view of the
relation of physics to reality was so different from Bohr’s. This may be brought home by
Bohr’s striking remark “There is no quantum world. There is only an abstract quantum description.
It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out how nature is. Physics concerns what
we can say about nature.”


2.3 Pauli on physical reality

Bohr presented his doctrine of complementarity after discussions with Pauli, who should
therefore be considered to have contributed significantly to its formulation. While Bohr’s
reply to EPR did not effectively address the grounds of Einstein’s divergent view of physical
reality, Pauli’s letter to Bohr of February 15th, 1955 shows that Pauli, at least, understood
Einstein’s viewpoint reasonably well, while continuing to disagree with it.

“it seems to me quite appropriate to call the conceptual description of nature in classical
physics, which Einstein so emphatically wishes to retain, “the ideal of the detached observer”.
To put it drastically the observer has according to this ideal to disappear entirely in a
discrete manner as hidden spectator, never as actor, nature being left alone in a
predetermined course of events, independent of the way in which phenomena are observed.
‘Like the moon has a definite position’ Einstein said to me last winter, ‘whether or not we look
at the moon, the same must hold for the atomic objects, as there is no sharp distinction
possible between these and macroscopic objects. Observation cannot create an element of
reality like position, there must be something contained in the complete description of
physical reality which corresponds to the possibility of observing a position, already before
the observation has actually been made’. I hope, that I quoted Einstein correctly; it is always
difficult to quote somebody out of memory with whom one does not agree. It is precisely this
kind of postulate which I call the ideal of the detached observer.

In quantum mechanics, on the contrary, an observation hic et nunc changes in general
the ‘state’ of the observed system in such a way not contained in the mathematically
formulated laws, which only apply to the automatical time-dependence of the state of a closed
system. I think here on the passage to a new phenomenon by observation which is technically
taken into account by the so-called ‘reduction of the wavepackets’. As it is allowed to consider
the instruments of observation as a kind of prolongation of the sense organs of the observer, I
consider the unpredictable change of the state by a single observation—in spite of the
objective character of the results of every observation and notwithstanding the statistical
laws for the frequencies of repeated observation under equal conditions—to be an
abandonment of the idea of the isolation (detachment) of the observer from the course of
physical events outside himself.”


In his essay “Probability and physics”, Pauli quotes Einstein as saying “There is such a
thing as the real state of a physical system, which exists objectively, independently of any
observation or measurement, and can in principle be described by the modes of expression
used in physics”.


Pauli continues

“However, these formulations of Einstein’s are only a paraphrase of the ideal of a special
form of physics, namely the “classical” form. This ideal, so pertinently characterised by
Einstein, I would call that of the detached observer. In point of fact ‘existent’ and ‘non-
existent’, or ‘real’ and ‘unreal’, are not unique characterisations of complementary qualities,
which can be checked only by statistical sequences of experiments using different
arrangements, freely chosen, which may in some cases be mutually exclusive.
The new theory
on the contrary generalizes these classical ideals and postulates. Under the pressure of the
physical facts summed up under the heading “finiteness of the quantum of action”, this logical
generalisation has emerged into a higher synthesis as a finally satisfactory solution of earlier
contradictions: The mathematical inclusion, in quantum mechanics, of the possibilities of
natural events has turned out to be a sufficiently wide framework to embrace the irrational
actuality of the single event
as well. It may also, as comprehending the rational and
irrational aspects of an essentially paradoxical reality, be designated as a theory of
becoming
.


(From “Probability and Physics”, Dialectica 8 (1954) reprinted in Wolfgang Pauli:
Writings on Physics and Philosophy, pp.47-8)

Pauli frequently uses the word ‘irrational’ when referring to physical reality, and here he
even dubs reality “paradoxical”, right after maintaining that quantum theory provides “a
finally satisfactory solution of earlier contradictions.” This at least suggests that in Pauli’s
usage ‘rational’ means ‘in conformity to physical law’ while ‘irrational’ does not mean
‘contradictory’ or ‘beyond human understanding’ but rather ‘outside the scope of physical
law; the random outcome of an observer’s action’. (In a 1954 letter to Born, Pauli says “The
appearance of a definite position during the subsequent observation...is then regarded as a
‘creation’ existing outside the laws of nature.”
) But this leaves open what Pauli meant by
calling reality “essentially paradoxical”. Though he never succeeded in formulating a clear
view of physical reality in the light of quantum theory, Pauli’s letters and publications
continue to provide a rich source of insights for someone trying to do so.
 

kryonlight

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In my opinion, Pauli actually came very close to Buddhism when he spoke about the "theory of becoming" regarding 'the irrational actuality of the single event'.

It is very clear to me that consciousness is the sole reason why quantum wave functions collapse. This point is made very well by Ken G and Fredrik of physicsforums.com:

G01: The point is that consciousness has nothing to do with measurement.

Ken G: The point is, that statement is patently false. The truth is that measurement, as defined and understood and contemplated and used by the conscious physicist, can happen even if no such physicist is present. However, to give semantic meaning to what a measurement even is, this does indeed require a conscious intelligence (so far as we understand what those words mean), who has been there in a fully analogous situation for us to be able to use any of those words meaningfully. In short, a universe with no intelligent beings is a universe that has no measurements, and no wave functions to collapse. That is not an opinion, it is a fact-- in such a universe there are not the words "wavefunction", there is not the concept "amplitude", because there are no words and no concepts in the first place, stuff just happens, presumably the same as it does now minus any concept of "measurement" or "collapse" of anything. The significance of this fact opens up a lot of what physics really means, but does indeed get a bit philosophical, ...

Fredrik: I just want to say that I agree with Ken's comments about consciousness. The key point is that an interaction that doesn't produce a persistent record that a human can interpret as a specific result of the interaction wouldn't be considered a measurement. This isn't a magical property of consciousness, or some highly speculative pseudo-theory that tries to explain something. It's just a statement about what sort of interaction we would consider a "measurement".

And if you are interested, you can also read this article: The Quantum Level of Reality by William Meacham.
 
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kryonlight

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Kaccayanagotta Sutta
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Dwelling at Savatthi... Then Ven. Kaccayana Gotta approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, 'Right view, right view,' it is said. To what extent is there right view?"

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: ... From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. (what I call the theory of becoming) ... From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. ....

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.015.than.html
 

vamjok

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this is what happens when a religious nuts read things beyond what they had learn in school. they interpret things whatever they want to believe.

first: in this experiment, you can placed a totally dead object like computer to monitor. we will get the result electron as a particle. it has nothing got to do with any conscience being watching it. the reason was because the very act of probing to investigate which hole the electron slip pass through interfere with the experiment. if this experiment was conducted in dark where no one can observe/observable by instrument then yes its a wave.

whether if there is any standardised form of measurement exist or not, it will behave as it is. those idiot that wrote that overestimated human race. natural laws do not give a fuck about us.
 
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kryonlight

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natural laws do not give a fuck about us.

That's only your interpretation.

Consciousness is always involved in the very act of probing. And if we do not look at the computer for the results, how do we even know it has collapsed? We don't know, and the logical thing to do is to treat it as a mixed state.

Maybe you would like to elaborate on why Ken G is wrong.

G01: However, you are not making any scientific case whatsoever that consciousness must be involved or that it is better than any other possible explanation for a non unitary process.

Ken G: That is simply not true, I am making a logically bulletproof case that consciousness is involved. The reason is that without consciousness, it is perfectly clear that the non-unitary step is never needed. This even holds in the classical realm (since the step we refer to is after the measurement, so it survives the classical translation). Consider a deck of cards that is shuffled and dealt. There is absolutely no physical theory of those cards that will ever need to treat them in any way other than as a mixed state of statistical outcomes (a "density matrix", if you will) if the cards are never looked at by anyone. Do you dispute that? So there is nothing to explain if the cards are not looked at-- we have a mixed state, period.

When we deproject that mixed state into quantum observables, we find we have a perfectly good unitary evolution there. There just isn't anything nonunitary if no one looks at the cards, this is just demonstrably true-- that's what happens with decoherence and von Neumann's approach to measurement, you get a unitary state of couplings between macro pointers and quantum states, there's no correlations between the different pointings, but there's also nothing nonunitary there because you don't yet have a single pointer outcome.

Until you look at the outcome, then all of a sudden you have something nonunitary on your plate that you have to explain. The role of your consciousness in that story is inescapable, the problem simply never comes up without it.
 
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vamjok

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That's only your interpretation.

Consciousness is always involved in the very act of probing. And if we do not look at the computer for the results, how do we even know it has collapsed? We don't know, and the logical thing to do is to treat it as a mixed state.

Maybe you would like to elaborate on why Ken G is wrong.

G01: However, you are not making any scientific case whatsoever that consciousness must be involved or that it is better than any other possible explanation for a non unitary process.

Ken G: That is simply not true, I am making a logically bulletproof case that consciousness is involved. The reason is that without consciousness, it is perfectly clear that the non-unitary step is never needed. This even holds in the classical realm (since the step we refer to is after the measurement, so it survives the classical translation). Consider a deck of cards that is shuffled and dealt. There is absolutely no physical theory of those cards that will ever need to treat them in any way other than as a mixed state of statistical outcomes (a "density matrix", if you will) if the cards are never looked at by anyone. Do you dispute that? So there is nothing to explain if the cards are not looked at-- we have a mixed state, period.

When we deproject that mixed state into quantum observables, we find we have a perfectly good unitary evolution there. There just isn't anything nonunitary if no one looks at the cards, this is just demonstrably true-- that's what happens with decoherence and von Neumann's approach to measurement, you get a unitary state of couplings between macro pointers and quantum states, there's no correlations between the different pointings, but there's also nothing nonunitary there because you don't yet have a single pointer outcome.

Until you look at the outcome, then all of a sudden you have something nonunitary on your plate that you have to explain. The role of your consciousness in that story is inescapable, the problem simply never comes up without it.

your understanding of collapse of mathematical wave function is a joke. i am right that you are just the buddhism version of palsm23. you know shit about it and yet wish to talk cock as if you are an expert.

i am going to say it once and never again. if you too like palsm23 are born stupid, its not my fault.

once the result is probe using any instrument - wave function is already collapse and is fixed as the experiment is already being disturbed. whether anyone goes to read the data stored in the instrument does not matter. YOU READING THE RESULT DO NOT PLAY A PART IN DISTURBING THE SYSTEM THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE COLLAPSE OF THE WAVE FUNCTION.

first and foremost, this WAS NOT MY INTERPRETATION. i fucking learn this in university and from a A/P and textbooks not from internet like you. This is a fucking classic experiments. all well established textbook points to the same thing.This is the fucking basic in any quantum mechanic class go fucking flip any textbook if you do not believe.
 
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kryonlight

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once the result is probe using any instrument - wave function is already collapse and is fixed as the experiment is already being disturbed. whether anyone goes to read the data stored in the instrument does not matter. YOU READING THE RESULT DO NOT PLAY A PART IN DISTURBING THE SYSTEM THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE COLLAPSE OF THE WAVE FUNCTION.

BruceW: Ken G, the standard interpretation of QM doesn't depend at all on consciousness.
The macro pointer instrument itself causes wavefunction collapse.


Ken G: There are two very different stages to "wavefunction collapse" that people often misconstrue, and only the first stage is independent of interpretation. It sounds like you are talking about simple decoherence, by which a pointer and an outcome become coupled, and pick up random or noncoherent phases with respect to all other pointer/outcome couplings. This is called a "mixed state" when you project onto either the pointer or the quantum alone, but it is still a unitary state when you consider the full wavefunction of the combined system. So far we have nothing but basic quantum mechanics, no need for any interpretation, and it describes the situation before anyone looks at the outcome of the experiment.

Enter the next stage of the "collapse", when someone does look at the outcome. Now we desperately need an interpretation, because we no longer have a unitary state. We just have one pointer result, and one quantum state. What happened to the rest of the unitary state-- it's gone! This is clearly the part that involves consciousness, because consciousness is the whole reason we need an answer to this part of the question. As I said above, if we adopt many-worlds, we solve the problem by saying the consciousness is in some sense "mistaken" or "under an illusion" that the unitary state is gone. The full state of "many worlds" is still there, the consciousness is just not aware of it. So absolutely yes, this is all about perception and consciousness.

Copenhagen also requires that we address the consciousness issue. Here, we do not say the consciousness is deluded or tricked, because we say that physics is ultimately a task for that consciousness. Instead we say the mathematics is not the reality. Bohm says the consciousness also gets the reality, but there's a different mathematics that is the fundamental reality-- though one we cannot directly interact with, it seems (some wonder if maybe we can).

So as you can see, consciousness is all over the hard problem of collapse, it's just not in the easy problem-- the decoherence.
 

vamjok

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http://www.amazon.com/Conceptual-Physics-Package-Edition-Hewitt/dp/0805391908

have a brain, learning science from websites? who are they in the very first place.

when you observed the experiment - collapse - 1 result - you observer you disturb, you observed particle behaviour
computer probe experiment - collapse - 1 result - you never observe result yet particle behaviour of the electron is already fix. you know or do not know does not matter, for the matter of fact even if you do not exist, due to the probing of finding out which hole the electron goes through, particle behaviour is already stored in the pc.
no probe no observer - wave function - wave function observed

conclusion - 2nd experiment prove conscience do not play a part in causing collapse of wave fucntion.

repeating the same thing over again. guess its the same as palsm23. give up
 
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kryonlight

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computer probe experiment - collapse - 1 result - you never observe result yet particle behaviour of the electron is already fix. you know or do not know does not matter

BruceW: G01 has explained that there is some non unitary part to the measurement process that occurs. This non unitary part doesn't require consciousness. A measurement made by a lifeless computer could cause this non unitary process to occur.

Ken G: Now I'm just repeating, but I will go through it yet again because this is the crux of the whole business right here.

A measurement made by a lifeless computer creates what is called a mixed state for the quantum system. That is because the quantum system is, at this point, a subspace of a larger apparatus. The larger apparatus, as G01 just explained, is still in a pure state according to the unitary evolution of quantum mechanics theory. The mixed state is the projection from the whole system onto the subspace of the quantum system. Nothing there creates any difficulties, nor requires any interpretations of quantum mechanics-- the full system is in a pure state so is still unitary, the projection onto the subspace is not supposed to be unitary, it's a projection from a joint wave function to a single-particle state, and that does not lead to a single-particle wavefunction at all (let alone an eigenstate of the measurable), it leads to a mixed state.

At this point, where all we have is the "lifeless computer", we do not have a single measurement outcome, we have a mixture of outcomes. This is also called an "ensemble" in mainstream quantum mechanics, the only difference is that to resolve certain difficulties in picturing what this is, we imagine lots and lots of copies of the system, instead of just one system. This makes it easier to imagine what a mixed state is, but there's really only one system there, it doesn't have to be an ensemble.

Enter a consciousness/intelligence/perceiver who thinks classically. Only now do we encounter the concept of an "actual outcome", and this creates a huge problem for quantum mechanics theory. Where does that actual outcome come from? No one knows, but here is where each of the interpretations step in to provide an untestable answer. I've already outlined what those answers are above, and GO1 mentioned some of the possibilities as well. The key thing to recognize at this point is that none of that difficult business even comes up, and there's no need for an interpretation, until we factor in the presence of a consciousness and its resulting "actual outcome" perception. The physics is perfectly happy just leaving the quantum in a mixed state, if all we have is a lifeless computer. It's all related to how a conscious entity does science, and this involves the perception of an actual outcome, even though the theory provides no such concept and forces us to inject a layer of randomness to get agreement with our experiences. Because we are conscious.

So this role of consciousness is much more subtle, yet much more fundamental to everything we do in science, than what that Wiki is talking about. I know that without even reading the context of the rest of that Wiki.
 

chorut

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Forget for a moment the part of the experiment where a measurement device is used to determine which slit the electron went through.
With 2 slits, the electrons behave like a wave when not observed (with interference cancelling out colliding electrons). When observed, it behaves like a particle.

The fundamental FIRST QUESTION the scientist should ask is this: Why the electrons behave like a wave in 2 slits, when it should equally have behaved like a particle, since an electron has two states. Meaning this, without being observed, why the electron behaves like a wave instead of a particle and when observed, it behaves like a particle.

An electron is a tiny particle of matter. A matter is like, for example, a small marble. A marble behaves like a particle and not a wave, all the time.

The uncertainly principle derived is applicable for only sub-atomic particles, like the electron and not for macro-masses, like a marble or a planet, and only when an observer is involved.

Henceforth, until one can fully understand why at quantum level, the electron behaves like a particle and a wave, the rest of the experiment is flawed and the conclusion drawn must be flawed too and discarded, because in the first place, without going into a singularity, the electron behaves like a particle as well as a wave, just like light does.

What we need to explore is to try to understand when the electron will behave like a particle and when it should behave like a wave, but not to draw conclusion that when an observer is involved, it behaves like a particle and when not observed, it behaves like a wave.

The 2 slits experiment is jumping the gun and trying to build a platform of higher understanding from a level of ignorance of the behavior of the electron. We cannot, and this is already proven to be true, to use Einstein's classical laws to explain Bohr's Model of quantum physical behavior.

To fully understand the 2 slit experiment and to be able to derive any sense out of it, one have to rely on the String Theory, but until now, the String Theory has multiple models. Meaning, until now, we can just take notes of how the 2 slit experiment precipitates, but we shold shy away from drawing any universal conclusions, especially not to draw pre-mature conclusion on the effect of observation and conscious attempt to measure a phenomenon. The time is not ripe yet. We are not ready.
 

cowpehcowbu

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All form are derived , and are the making of the mind, what we called matter, particle, energy, wave are just misconception about the true nature of the mind play, which in turn are superficial function of the cosmic consciousness,
Cosmic phenomenon are just vibration, and interaction of vibration, space and time are just illusions of the mind....in deep medition , when the mind goes into near perfect stillness,,then all illusions ceased and the true nature of consciousness prevail..in an inexplicable state of condition,,which is entirely NOT what the human mind true to understand...
particle ,wave ,energy , space , time are all illusion created by mind...nothing else..
 

vamjok

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computer probe experiment - collapse - 1 result - you never observe result yet particle behaviour of the electron is already fix. you know or do not know does not matter

i had read the rubbish. still the same reply. read from textbook instead of nonsense from forum. that fellow is stating tons of rubbish. ONCE probe - wave function collapse - no such thing as mix state.

uncertainty of result only stands when NOTHING, NO ONE PROBE IT
 
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kryonlight

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The time is not ripe yet. We are not ready.

Well, I have to disagree, because I am a believer of consciousness. I think Ken G sums it up very well:

Ken G: The basic problem is that physics itself demonstrably comes from the consciousness (nothing unconscious is doing any physics), consciousness is built right into the fabric of the scientific method (and here I make no attempt to distinguish "consciousness" from "awareness" or "intelligence" or "understanding", you can try to parse those words if you want!). So the basic problem is, we have no idea to what extent our own thinking processes are inherent to our physics, including our concepts like collapse of the wavefunction. The best we can do is recognize that the concept of a hypothetical observer, with a hypothetical consciousness if necesary, suffices to understand our physics. So there is not a need for a real observer or consciousness to be present to understand the outcome of some physical event, but that is not quite the same thing as saying there doesn't have to be a consciousness at all. Physics is, above all, a kind of language, spoken by an intelligence, that is conscious. Make of that fact whatever you will.

Ken G: So is physics about what nature is doing, or how we describe what nature is doing? That's the key point-- we have no idea what nature is doing, beyond our own efforts to describe it, and we are involved in that in a fundamental way. I like to say that science is a conversation between us and nature, not a movie starring nature. It just is, we can see this just by looking at it critically.

Ken G:That's an excellent way to put it Fredrik, thank you. I think a lot of the problem was with all the magical properties attributed to consciousness, and I am referring only to the central issue that you also focus on: the ability for a consciousness to register an outcome.


I think the last point is very important why many physicists shun the role of consciousness in collapsing quantum wave functions.
 

chorut

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No one is denying the existence of human consciousness, but the 2 slit experiment is not definitive of consciousness at work. Like I had said, if one cannot explain the duality of an electron behaving as a particle and a wave, then the results of all measurements should not be used to define the effect or the existence of consciousness. Whether you believe in consciousness or not is not a factor here. Have you read up on String Theory? It has a vastly different model to explain the 2 slit experiment. Check that up first before you plunge into your belief of whatever you understand of consciousness.
 

kryonlight

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computer probe experiment - collapse - 1 result - you never observe result yet particle behaviour of the electron is already fix. you know or do not know does not matter

I read Conceptual Physics by Hewitt that you recommended and there's no mention of anything about quantum wave function collapse or a computer probe experiment.
 

vamjok

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good, now you know duality behaviour (if you really fucking read it) from chapter light quanta and light wave.

now see this stupid fuck

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ayvbKafw2g0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

since you fucking need to be spoonfeed till this extend, which is something i do for only those under 12,

http://www.physics.nus.edu.sg/einstein/

chapter 12, 13 and 16
 
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Psalm23

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......natural laws do not give a fxxx about us.


Scinetist (???) Rojak,

Actually I do not intend to comment those rubbish written by you, but since you have quoted me in the threads, I feel very obligated to reply.

Your above statement absolutely contradicts what evolution by natural selection is all about...in other words, you are putting great doubts in evolution and yet you are, at the same time, a Darwinian disciple. Make up your mind, please.....Rojak Scientist.

Nonetheless, I fully agree to your statement: Natural laws do care anything about us (especially when creation is concerned). When it comes to creation, only God cares! Everything that we observed, experienced and learnt can be related to God's creation in some ways. He created the laws of nature which in turns govern the universe, not just the material aspects but the moral aspects of all His creation. Even animals and plants must obey all the laws of nature! His laws of nature cannot be violated, period!
 
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vamjok

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Scinetist (???) Rojak,

Actually I do not intend to comment those rubbish written by you, but since you have quoted me in the threads, I feel very obligated to reply.

Your above statement absolutely contradicts what evolution by natural selection is all about...in other words, you are putting great doubts in evolution and yet you are, at the same time, a Darwinian disciple. Make up your mind, please.....Rojak Scientist.

Nonetheless, I fully agree to your statement: Natural laws do care anything about us (especially when creation is concerned). When it comes to creation, only God cares! Everything that we observed, experienced and learnt can be related to God's creation in some ways. He created the laws of nature which in turns govern the universe, not just the material aspects but the moral aspects of all His creation. Even animals and plants must obey all the laws of nature! His laws of nature cannot be violated, period!

dumb fuck, the more you talk, the more stupidity comes out from your mouth. i cannot even believe someone is so stupid as you
 

chorut

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God, creation and laws of physics are three very different studies altogether. Each can be exclusive and can also overlap.
Believing in God does not mean one must believe in the Christian concept of Creation, and it should therefore not mean that one
does not believe in Evolution.

In a nutshell, it's all in one's perceptive how one chooses to look at it, but for a start, we should not equate Creation to what Genesis in Judaism chooses to say. From Judaism, then we have Christianity and then Islam. Their roots are all the same in the Old testament, and their Creationist God is Abraham's God.

However, a modern-day Creationist can just believe in a higher plane of dimension or order or Tao that creates this universe. It's not Genesis. It's closer to Tao, which is the Way. No one can explain Tao or should even try to. Once you try to explain Tao, it's no longer Tao. Tao cannot be explained. Don't even try.

All this quarrel about Darwinism versus Creationism are the juvenile concoction of ill-equipped and ignorant brags who believes the universe is limited to Abraham's God.

Why should one who believe in God or a Creator be limited to Genesis or Abraham's God. Isn't this plain dumb?
 
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