Buddhism — path to enlightenment or just more bullshit? ( part 2) ;)

more then 14 years ago i know a thai lady who is a devout buddhist. every day she prays at the shrine she set up in the house, and nearly every Sunday goes to worship in the Temple. i became interested in these activities, visited a few temples, and was introduced to a few monks . i began reading books on the life of the buddha & buddhism. i was impressed. why?
first, they didn’t believe in God. ( which is why i like ) second, monks lead a very ascetic life. no sex, booze, luxuries, or comfortable beds for them. they must be, and are, very devoted to their cause. third, i don’t know of any wars carried out in the name of buddhism. indeed, buddhists seem very laid-back when it comes to proselytising their religion (or philosophy as they like to call it).
so, is buddhism the ideal for me? for a while I thought so, but then came the doubts. first, i couldn’t understand why buddhists appear to be praying. the statues and idols didn’t worry me , but if there is no god, then where do the prayers go?
second, the monks are held in very high esteem. i believe that they should be given respect, but how much? they are not saints yet they appear to be treated as such.
third, the concept of “nirvana”, in buddhist philosophy, is a state without desire, and completely at peace. a state of “nothingness” (form is emptyness , emptyness is form ). to me, as an atheist, it is the same as death. i put this concept to a buddhist monk and his reply was that if this was the case, a murderer would suffer the same fate as a virtuous and moral person, and therefore there was no incentive to do good deeds.

however the real ‘nail in the coffin’ for me is the buddhist philosophy of cause and effect known as “karma”.

i bought a copy of richard dawkins’ excellent book The God Delusion. in his notes ( cant remember which chapter ) , under the heading ‘is the new testament any better?’, he writes .

julia sweeney is also right on target when she briefly mentions buddhism. just as christianity is sometimes thought to be a nicer, gentler religion than islam, buddhism is often cracked up to be the nicest of all. but the doctrine of demotion on the reincarnation ladder because of past sins in a past life is pretty unpleasant. julia sweeney: " i went to thailand and happened to visit a woman who was taking care of a terribly deformed boy. i said to his caretaker, “it’s so good of you to be taking care of this poor boy.” she said, “don’t say ‘poor boy’, he must have done something terrible in a past life to be born this way.”



after reading this in dawkins’ book i checked with my thai friends who confirmed this idea. i was angry . as a human being i cannot accept the idea that this is their punishment for collecting “bad karma” in a previous life.
i find it difficult to understand the idea of previous lives at all. i can’t remember any, and i find it hard to believe people when they say they can remember previous lives. i remember talking to a man , who was sure that he had committed murder in a previous life ( he is very rich ) . this begs the question “if I believe that I have committed murder in a previous life, and am now leading a comfortable life, why should I not do it again?”
is the human ego responsible for the idea of life after death? can’t we just accept that we have only one life? for if we accept that this is so, then surely we must try to make the best of the one and only life we have for ourselves, and others, without the dubious benefits of religion.

drifter said:

can’t we just accept that we have only one life? for if we accept that this is so, then surely we must try to make the best of the one and only life we have for ourselves, and others, without the dubious benefits of religion.

Click to expand...

That begs the question: If I can make the best of this one and only life I have for myself by murdering, robbing, stealing, raping, cheating, selling tainted milk, deliberately running over a knocked down pedestrian to avoid hefty medical compensation, etc, why should I not do it?

This is the sort of mentality that is practiced by the atheist Communist Chinese. I ever asked one of them if he would ever sell fake/tainted food and he told me frankly that if he had the chance to do so, he would. He explained that everybody need to eat food, and he would make a huge fortune out of selling fake/tainted food.

drifter said:

first, they didn’t believe in God. ( which is why i like ) second, monks lead a very ascetic life. no sex, booze, luxuries, or comfortable beds for them. they must be, and are, very devoted to their cause. third, i don’t know of any wars carried out in the name of buddhism. indeed, buddhists seem very laid-back when it comes to proselytising their religion (or philosophy as they like to call it).
so, is buddhism the ideal for me? for a while I thought so, but then came the doubts. first, i couldn’t understand why buddhists appear to be praying. the statues and idols didn’t worry me , but if there is no god, then where do the prayers go?
second, the monks are held in very high esteem. i believe that they should be given respect, but how much? they are not saints yet they appear to be treated as such.
third, the concept of “nirvana”, in buddhist philosophy, is a state without desire, and completely at peace. a state of “nothingness” (form is emptyness , emptyness is form ). to me, as an atheist, it is the same as death. i put this concept to a buddhist monk and his reply was that if this was the case, a murderer would suffer the same fate as a virtuous and moral person, and therefore there was no incentive to do good deeds.

however the real ‘nail in the coffin’ for me is the buddhist philosophy of cause and effect known as “karma”.

i bought a copy of richard dawkins’ excellent book The God Delusion. in his notes ( cant remember which chapter ) , under the heading ‘is the new testament any better?’, he writes .

julia sweeney is also right on target when she briefly mentions buddhism. just as christianity is sometimes thought to be a nicer, gentler religion than islam, buddhism is often cracked up to be the nicest of all. but the doctrine of demotion on the reincarnation ladder because of past sins in a past life is pretty unpleasant. julia sweeney: " i went to thailand and happened to visit a woman who was taking care of a terribly deformed boy. i said to his caretaker, “it’s so good of you to be taking care of this poor boy.” she said, “don’t say ‘poor boy’, he must have done something terrible in a past life to be born this way.”

after reading this in dawkins’ book i checked with my thai friends who confirmed this idea. i was angry . as a human being i cannot accept the idea that this is their punishment for collecting “bad karma” in a previous life.
i find it difficult to understand the idea of previous lives at all. i can’t remember any, and i find it hard to believe people when they say they can remember previous lives. i remember talking to a man , who was sure that he had committed murder in a previous life ( he is very rich ) . this begs the question “if I believe that I have committed murder in a previous life, and am now leading a comfortable life, why should I not do it again?”
is the human ego responsible for the idea of life after death? can’t we just accept that we have only one life? for if we accept that this is so, then surely we must try to make the best of the one and only life we have for ourselves, and others, without the dubious benefits of religion.

Click to expand...

first, they didn’t believe in God. ( which is why i like ) -- no wonder you are having problem. you based your belief on your liking, which is totally wrong.

i couldn’t understand why buddhists appear to be praying. the statues and idols didn’t worry me , but if there is no god, then where do the prayers go? --
you mean when you wanted to belief in Buddhism , you don't know that Buddhist don't pray to god ?
it is not that there is no god , there are many many gods in various havens. but Buddhist don't pray to them.

i believe that they should be given respect, but how much? they are not saints yet they appear to be treated as such. -- nobody is forcing you to treat monk
with high esteem if you don't want to. if others do it , why it is a concern to you ? It is up to individual , how strong is the faith.
Buddhist just need to treat monk/nun with respect, that's all.

third, the concept of “nirvana”, in buddhist philosophy, is a state without desire, and completely at peace. a state of “nothingness” (form is emptyness , emptyness is form ). to me, as an atheist, it is the same as death. - - i like to give you an elaborated answer but on second thought the answer may confuse you than help you understand.
simply put , nirvana is not death, so you are wrong. nothingness is not emptiness (as in outer space where there is absolutely nothing).
"form is emptiness and emptiness is form" has a very deep meaning , it is not what you think it is by looking at the words.

as a human being i cannot accept the idea that this is their punishment for collecting “bad karma” in a previous life.--
this begs the question “if I believe that I have committed murder in a previous life, and am now leading a comfortable life, why should I not do it again?” --
you cannot understand karma because you just have a superficial knowledge of it. you only know karma means do good deeds get good result and
bad deeds get bad result. and you stop there without finding more. to explain karma in detail would takes at least a few hours.
just to give an idea : there is individual karma , collective karma , ripening karma , karma yet to be ripen , etc.
karma according to the act , karma according to the cause , supportive karma , destructive karma , etc.
karma is like a seed , seed needs water , fertile soil , sunlight to grow. so karma will ripen when the right conditions are met.

can’t we just accept that we have only one life? for if we accept that this is so, then surely we must try to make the best of the one and only life we have for ourselves, and others, without the dubious benefits of religion -- yes you certainly can. but it won't make the functioning of karma go away.
it is like people used to believed the earth is square. but this don't change the shape of the earth which is round. the truth is also the truth whether
you choose to believe or not.
your problem is you are not using reason , logic to work thing out .
why do some people suffer , some enjoying life , some are begger , other are rich ,etc.
possible answers [1] they are born this way , no one cause it ; [2] god created people , and he created some to be cripple some to be king ;
[3] it is the law of karma which stated you are responsible for what you are.
we cannot see the creator god , we cannot see karma , and [1] is included because it could be an answer.
but which one is more reasonable , logical ? you do the analysis yourself.

kryonlight said:

That begs the question: If I can make the best of this one and only life I have for myself by murdering, robbing, stealing, raping, cheating, selling tainted milk, deliberately running over a knocked down pedestrian to avoid hefty medical compensation, etc, why should I not do it?

This is the sort of mentality that is practiced by the atheist Communist Chinese. I ever asked one of them if he would ever sell fake/tainted food and he told me frankly that if he had the chance to do so, he would. He explained that everybody need to eat food, and he would make a huge fortune out of selling fake/tainted food.

Click to expand...

for your infor , most of the prisoners in changi prison are religious ppl . atheist ? not much in there atheist communist chinese selling fake food ? this is about greedy and dishonest businessman and nothing got to do with atheist or not hope you get your facts right . and what about religious leader that con money ?

greedy and cunnig said:

first, they didn’t believe in God. ( which is why i like ) -- no wonder you are having problem. you based your belief on your liking, which is totally wrong.

i couldn’t understand why buddhists appear to be praying. the statues and idols didn’t worry me , but if there is no god, then where do the prayers go? --
you mean when you wanted to belief in Buddhism , you don't know that Buddhist don't pray to god ?
it is not that there is no god , there are many many gods in various havens. but Buddhist don't pray to them.

i believe that they should be given respect, but how much? they are not saints yet they appear to be treated as such. -- nobody is forcing you to treat monk
with high esteem if you don't want to. if others do it , why it is a concern to you ? It is up to individual , how strong is the faith.
Buddhist just need to treat monk/nun with respect, that's all.

third, the concept of “nirvana”, in buddhist philosophy, is a state without desire, and completely at peace. a state of “nothingness” (form is emptyness , emptyness is form ). to me, as an atheist, it is the same as death. - - i like to give you an elaborated answer but on second thought the answer may confuse you than help you understand.
simply put , nirvana is not death, so you are wrong. nothingness is not emptiness (as in outer space where there is absolutely nothing).
"form is emptiness and emptiness is form" has a very deep meaning , it is not what you think it is by looking at the words.

as a human being i cannot accept the idea that this is their punishment for collecting “bad karma” in a previous life.--
this begs the question “if I believe that I have committed murder in a previous life, and am now leading a comfortable life, why should I not do it again?” --
you cannot understand karma because you just have a superficial knowledge of it. you only know karma means do good deeds get good result and
bad deeds get bad result. and you stop there without finding more. to explain karma in detail would takes at least a few hours.
just to give an idea : there is individual karma , collective karma , ripening karma , karma yet to be ripen , etc.
karma according to the act , karma according to the cause , supportive karma , destructive karma , etc.
karma is like a seed , seed needs water , fertile soil , sunlight to grow. so karma will ripen when the right conditions are met.

can’t we just accept that we have only one life? for if we accept that this is so, then surely we must try to make the best of the one and only life we have for ourselves, and others, without the dubious benefits of religion -- yes you certainly can. but it won't make the functioning of karma go away.
it is like people used to believed the earth is square. but this don't change the shape of the earth which is round. the truth is also the truth whether
you choose to believe or not.
your problem is you are not using reason , logic to work thing out .
why do some people suffer , some enjoying life , some are begger , other are rich ,etc.
possible answers [1] they are born this way , no one cause it ; [2] god created people , and he created some to be cripple some to be king ;
[3] it is the law of karma which stated you are responsible for what you are.
we cannot see the creator god , we cannot see karma , and [1] is included because it could be an answer.
but which one is more reasonable , logical ? you do the analysis yourself.

Click to expand...

" first, they didn’t believe in God. ( which is why i like ) -- no wonder you are having problem. you based your belief on your liking, which is totally wrong ".

me having problem ? im based on logic more then my liking that they are no god ..

" you mean when you wanted to belief in Buddhism , you don't know that Buddhist don't pray to god ?
it is not that there is no god , there are many many gods in various havens. but Buddhist don't pray to them ".

so buddhist believe in god ? so why buddist dont pray to them ? because your religion is bigger then other religion ? sound familar

" nobody is forcing you to treat monk
with high esteem if you don't want to. if others do it , why it is a concern to you ? It is up to individual , how strong is the faith.
Buddhist just need to treat monk/nun with respect, that's all.

if ppl worship lky or north korean leader does it concern us too ? if ppl like you always keep your mouth shut even if you see something is not right then what will the world become ? do you think ppl should give their hard earn money to city havest conman too ? by the way its not your own money they have con should non-city havest members keep their mouth shut too ? respect should be earned and not given freely .


" i like to give you an elaborated answer but on second thought the answer may confuse you than help you understand.
simply put , nirvana is not death, so you are wrong. nothingness is not emptiness (as in outer space where there is absolutely nothing).
"form is emptiness and emptiness is form" has a very deep meaning , it is not what you think it is by looking at the words ".

i know buddist love to play with words ...its ok , im good with it so what is nirvana ? where is nirvana ? by the way , theres many planets and stars in outer space

you cannot understand karma because you just have a superficial knowledge of it. you only know karma means do good deeds get good result and
bad deeds get bad result. and you stop there without finding more. to explain karma in detail would takes at least a few hours.
just to give an idea : there is individual karma , collective karma , ripening karma , karma yet to be ripen , etc.
karma according to the act , karma according to the cause , supportive karma , destructive karma , etc.
karma is like a seed , seed needs water , fertile soil , sunlight to grow. so karma will ripen when the right conditions are met.

whahahhaha...buddhisum really sound like other cults ..theres so many karma ? whahhahaha..when one karma never happen in this life move to the next karma and so on ? wow ...well done . that is the "correct " way of explaining things that will never happen ...for christains they used " god has it plans " , " god works in mysterious ways " . both cults are using excuses trying to buy " time " when nothin happens ...whahhahahahha . nowaday do we really need a seed to grow tree ? no . we use cloning , do we need sunlight ? no . artifical light will do , fertile soil ? some plants dont even need soil to grow . thats why i say religion teaching is already outdated


" yes you certainly can. but it won't make the functioning of karma go away.
it is like people used to believed the earth is square. but this don't change the shape of the earth which is round. the truth is also the truth whether
you choose to believe or not.
your problem is you are not using reason , logic to work thing out " .


of course the earth is round ..theres nothin you can change it even if you do not believe ..same as karma ,because theres no karma sorry to say that karma is for delusional ppl who cant find justice for themself and use karma to make themselves to feel good that there are justice in this world ..its a nice dream though .you are the one that dont use logic to think . so you also believe those babies born without leg beacuse of their previous life aka karma ?

Hi bro drifter, supposedly they took the karma thing too seriously. Its like a lesson that one wants to undertake rather than something enforced. Its like you want to learn the effects of it, an aboriginal saying goes something like:

We are all visitors to this time and place, everyone of us is here to observe, learn and after that, to go home.

So it is for my philosophy towards Buddhism, the effects and laws of karma are just a guide. People may have choosen a harder path in order to learn and understand the effects of ones past actions.

There is no right or wrong, its just part of their learning process. Just like why some folks, even though their single mum (respect her) got them exemption from our NS, after he grows up decided to go into the army in Australia and tragically died in Afghanistan in the end on the first tour of duty. This is sad but this is also how life is. It is what it is.

I believe though, we ourselves have the power to change our lives. When the monks pray, the only being they should be praying to is themselves as everyone is a Buddha. Everyone can enlightened, just do not be deceived by the 5 senses.

wuqi256 said:

Hi bro drifter, supposedly they took the karma thing too seriously. Its like a lesson that one wants to undertake rather than something enforced. Its like you want to learn the effects of it, an aboriginal saying goes something like:

We are all visitors to this time and place, everyone of us is here to observe, learn and after that, to go home.

So it is for my philosophy towards Buddhism, the effects and laws of karma are just a guide. People may have choosen a harder path in order to learn and understand the effects of ones past actions.

There is no right or wrong, its just part of their learning process. Just like why some folks, even though their single mum (respect her) got them exemption from our NS, after he grows up decided to go into the army in Australia and tragically died in Afghanistan in the end on the first tour of duty. This is sad but this is also how life is. It is what it is.

I believe though, we ourselves have the power to change our lives. When the monks pray, the only being they should be praying to is themselves as everyone is a Buddha. Everyone can enlightened, just do not be deceived by the 5 senses.

Click to expand...

bro wuqi , i agree some part of your post . yes we are here to learn and observe about life but if ppl learn from the wrong things we must voice out and help those delusional ppl when we sense something is not right . yes i agree with you that karma is just a guide that dont exists ..but would you like a condom monster to guide you ? of course you dont want , right ?

I desire to pee, to eat, to drink , to sleep ... must i stop those desire ?

drifter said:

bro wuqi , i agree some part of your post . yes we are here to learn and observe about life but if ppl learn from the wrong things we must voice out and help those delusional ppl when we sense something is not right . yes i agree with you that karma is just a guide that dont exists ..but would you like a condom monster to guide you ? of course you dont want , right ?

Click to expand...

Agree, again the teachings of one, even no matter how pure, gets warped and changed by the interpretation of many. Even most sutras tells you, this is what they heard so its open to interpretation, etc.

Thats why we end up with many who started their own sects/subsects. Even amongst most of the major religions, lies many fractures because of individuals who sees their own path/enlightenment/salvation differently.

Like what the man said, pick our own poison. Take in what we think is right and reject what we see is wrong. The finger may point to the moon but the moon is not the finger. We will only know the truth when we return home, till then it is a constant path to learn. Someone once told me this, being human is like being put through a remedial class. You have to keep doing it until you get it right. There is no one but yourself who will judge you, you have to satisfy your own criteria.

All needs and wants are part of the rules of this world, it may yet change when we return. When you were but a baby, you desired only warmth, milk and sleep, then you progress to needing toys, stimulation, learning then it progresses. As we grow, certain ideas, conception and even cherished toys are slowly discarded. So it is with the needs and wants we encounter in this life.

Learning is a constant challenge in life, an open mind is the rarest gift one can find. The best master in this world is still but a finger in the general direction, one still has to find ones own path in life.

The rules are there to guide but if they don't make sense (just like GPS directing one to the sea), they should be ignored. Sticking dogmatically to a book just because "it tells me so" will just ensure one drives deep into the sea while relying on a GPS.

Learning is good but should never be done blindly. Question everything, assume nothing and certainly ones path in life has to be walked by oneself to reach the destination one seek. Form your own conclusions and follow your heart.

When asked where the road leads, the answer came, the road is below ones own feet.

drifter, u are the monkey

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zPqm6ePcOMM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/x0mBQV0WXDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

god_zeus said:

drifter, u are the monkey

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zPqm6ePcOMM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/x0mBQV0WXDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Click to expand...

whahhahahah...nice try journey to the west is also just another story

wuqi256 said:

Agree, again the teachings of one, even no matter how pure, gets warped and changed by the interpretation of many. Even most sutras tells you, this is what they heard so its open to interpretation, etc.

Thats why we end up with many who started their own sects/subsects. Even amongst most of the major religions, lies many fractures because of individuals who sees their own path/enlightenment/salvation differently.

Like what the man said, pick our own poison. Take in what we think is right and reject what we see is wrong. The finger may point to the moon but the moon is not the finger. We will only know the truth when we return home, till then it is a constant path to learn. Someone once told me this, being human is like being put through a remedial class. You have to keep doing it until you get it right. There is no one but yourself who will judge you, you have to satisfy your own criteria.

All needs and wants are part of the rules of this world, it may yet change when we return. When you were but a baby, you desired only warmth, milk and sleep, then you progress to needing toys, stimulation, learning then it progresses. As we grow, certain ideas, conception and even cherished toys are slowly discarded. So it is with the needs and wants we encounter in this life.

Learning is a constant challenge in life, an open mind is the rarest gift one can find. The best master in this world is still but a finger in the general direction, one still has to find ones own path in life.

The rules are there to guide but if they don't make sense (just like GPS directing one to the sea), they should be ignored. Sticking dogmatically to a book just because "it tells me so" will just ensure one drives deep into the sea while relying on a GPS.

Learning is good but should never be done blindly. Question everything, assume nothing and certainly ones path in life has to be walked by oneself to reach the destination one seek. Form your own conclusions and follow your heart.

When asked where the road leads, the answer came, the road is below ones own feet.

Click to expand...

" even no matter how pure, gets warped and changed by the interpretation of many. Even most sutras tells you, this is what they heard so its open to interpretation, etc ".

thats why i always said having religion is very dangerous , since its was created by human thousands years ago and along the way they are many misinterpretation until today . thats why i said religon should be banned to stop ppl from delusion .

" Learning is a constant challenge in life, an open mind is the rarest gift one can find. The best master in this world is still but a finger in the general direction, one still has to find ones own path in life ".

but sometimes if one open their mind too big their brain will pop out . and they will start talkin nonsense . yes the smartest master in the world will never give you answer ...instead they will try to finger you to general direction ..if that is the wrong direction its not their fault ..this tactics are best use for running away from responsiblity and blames .

" When asked where the road leads, the answer came, the road is below ones own feet "

thats the biggest problem in buddhisum , it never really answer your question is just like throwing another question back at you . if i ask again where is the road below ones own feet lead ? , they will ty to throw back another question at you all political leaders in the world should learn buddhisum so that they could play " taji "

sooner or later someone goin to call me ji gong and not sun wu kong

[video=youtube;WKgkbjfTo3Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKgkbjfTo3Y[/video]

drifter said:

what about religious leader that con money ?

Click to expand...

I believe that this religious leader who cons money doesn't really believe in the existence of God. 'God' is merely his tool to enrich himself. He's actually an atheist who makes use of the concept of God for his own greed.

Isn't that obvious to you? LOL!

To the TS, I wonder if you read the below on Buddhism and Reincarnation.. if u didn't.. pls do

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm

I do not profess to understand everything about Buddhism.. but I sincerely doubt if ANYONE can truly say they read ALL the 84,000 teachings left behind by Buddha, for only then.. and only upon real understanding of ALL the teachings, can such a person really say anything about the good or bad of Buddhism.

This post is just to inform TS of what might be a misunderstanding of reincarnation.. nothing more.. nothing less

drifter said:

for your infor , most of the prisoners in changi prison are religious ppl . atheist ? not much in there

Click to expand...

I don't know how true this statement is. What about the prisoners in Chinese prisons? Not all those who murder, rape, steal, rob, cheat, lie, slander, engage in harsh speech, etc., are imprisoned.

I would like to ask you: If you can make the best of this one and only life you have for yourself by lying, slandering and engaging in harsh speech, why should you not do it?

Buddhists are taught not to do so because of shame in the present and the consequences of kamma in the future.

What moral principles do you abide by?

kryonlight said:

I believe that this religious leader who cons money doesn't really believe in the existence of God. 'God' is merely his tool to enrich himself. He's actually an atheist who makes use of the concept of God for his own greed.

Isn't that obvious to you? LOL!

Click to expand...

how do you know those religion conman dont believe in god ? maybe right at the start they are religious person but along the way they got smarter and know that theres no god , so why not make full use of their understanding of their own religion and go out there and some con money or they still believe in god but think money is more pratical . dont always assume things ..

Tension68 said:

To the TS, I wonder if you read the below on Buddhism and Reincarnation.. if u didn't.. pls do

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm

I do not profess to understand everything about Buddhism.. but I sincerely doubt if ANYONE can truly say they read ALL the 84,000 teachings left behind by Buddha, for only then.. and only upon real understanding of ALL the teachings, can such a person really say anything about the good or bad of Buddhism.

This post is just to inform TS of what might be a misunderstanding of reincarnation.. nothing more.. nothing less

Click to expand...

let me ask you something if i pass you a harrypotter book or any fairy tales book and ask you to read it , telling you its not a storybook but a real deal ...after a while you start to know that those magical things in the storybook is not real , would you carry on reading and trying to believe that book and waste your time on it ?

i do study and intrested in most religion thats why i dare to say all religion are man made and religion are just a tools to control human brain .

so , tell me what misunderstanding of reincarnation do i have ?

kryonlight said:

I don't know how true this statement is. What about the prisoners in Chinese prisons? Not all those who murder, rape, steal, rob, cheat, lie, slander, engage in harsh speech, etc., are imprisoned.

I would like to ask you: If you can make the best of this one and only life you have for yourself by lying, slandering and engaging in harsh speech, why should you not do it?

Buddhists are taught not to do so because of shame in the present and the consequences of kamma in the future.

What moral principles do you abide by?

Click to expand...

its up to you to believe im once a prison warder ( actucally is k9 unit ) in changi during my NS days . for your infor all of the inmates there commited a crime , from theif to murderers to rapists ( if not they would not be in prison ( of course some i believe that they are innocent , but the percentage is like 5% out of 100% .

" I would like to ask you: If you can make the best of this one and only life you have for yourself by lying, slandering and engaging in harsh speech, why should you not do it " ?

first of all , ppl with or without religion will still lie , slandering and engaging in hash speech ...so i think that question is the very suitable .


" Buddhists are taught not to do so because of shame in the present and the consequences of kamma in the future.

What moral principles do you abide by " ?

hello !!!!are you really ok ? you mean ppl without any religion cant tell what is right from wrong ? and we ppl without religion , steal , rob , rape , kills ? we dont need a higher being to control us and punish us when things go wrong . ppl who know me in real life in this forum know what kind of person i am ...me and my group of non-belivers volunteers did help out tsunami victim in japan ..we donate food , clothes , toys ...ect . im not telling you all this to make you think how noble i am ...im just telling you we ppl dont need god to do good( until today we are still sending things to them and visit them if we have time ) . we do it for mankind because we are surrounded by humans and not god !!!! . thats my explaination to you .

drifter said:

let me ask you something if i pass you a harrypotter book or any fairy tales book and ask you to read it , telling you its not a storybook but a real deal ...after a while you start to know that those magical things in the storybook is not real , would you carry on reading and trying to believe that book and waste your time on it ?

i do study and intrested in most religion thats why i dare to say all religion are man made and religion are just a tools to control human brain .

so , tell me what misunderstanding of reincarnation do i have ?

Click to expand...

If u pass me a storybook, and tell me it is a real thing.. a religion.. then it is up to me to decide whether it is what u say it is.
Unless I am a little kid with so little knowledge on religion and the real world.. and without proper understanding of what is real, what is religion, what is a joke, and what is a intentional lie.. then I would probably believe everything u say.

And if, or when I find out that book is not a real thing, I might smile and think you played a funny joke on me, or I might frown and think you wasted my time with a freking lie.. which I decide.. I don't know for it hasn't happened yet.

So YOU choose to refute religion (u did say u posted on Christianity.. and now Buddhism), and doubt the teachings and don't believe it. Well, that is your choice. If that makes you happy, good for you.

What you choose to believe, is ur own business. What you want to say, can be no others' business.. unless u willingly intend to insult, cause hurt of feelings or even more vicious ideas or thoughts, shouldn't be done if u haf consideration for others' feelings and, dare I say it.. a conscience.

I won't force my ideas onto others, nor want to say things that may cause unease (not unless provoked.. or on topics with which debate is more than needed.. ).. but that is me.
It is your choice to say that religion is man made, but can you really prove that there is no higher being in existence?

I choose to believe in Buddhism, and also respect others who choose to believe in whatever religion that practices to do good to and for every human being.. and not cause hurt or harm.

And.. I didn't say YOU had a misunderstanding of reincarnation. I wrote, "what might be a misunderstanding..."
Perhaps if I had used "what might be a general misunderstanding of..." would not cause you to misinterpret my words..(??)

Bro, if you can't accept the karma thing, the reincarnation thing.. and all about past sins affecting current life, that's fine.
Nobody says we have to accept everything we see, hear or read in the world.

If ppl believe that doing bad things is not gonna affect them, and they still believe in reincarnation.. then it is their choice.. there is really nothing to stop them from believing that.. unless something happens to them to make them change. if I may say it, religion is more like a guide for ppl to not to do bad things. All major religions preach to their followers not to do bad things, and that's why they haf alot of followers. Can you imagine what would happen if cults which preach killings, theft and worse things have massive following?

with that, i won't post here any more. No need to continue in this for it seems like a classic "science vs religion" for, if both are good for all human beings, then y can't both co-exist, instead of each trying to out-do the other?