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Battles of the Prophet of Religion of Peace

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
6/21/2012

Muhammad in his entire life time undertook unlimited battles and fought some eight of them.[1] When we ask these things to an Islamic scholar that why the Prophet of Most Peaceful religion fought so many battles, their instant reply will be that these battles which Muhammad undertook and fought were all in self defense. Some Scholars even say that “not a single battle was offensive, or he (Muhammad) fought because Allah informed his messenger with the help of Archangel Gabriel that the Non-Believers were plotting and planning against him to kill him.”

But how can we trust these Scholars without going through the evidence of their claim. So in this article we will see that whether really Muhammad fought his battles in Self Defense or were offensive battles. Lets start with the Battle of Badr.

Battle of Badr

Background

This battle took place when Muhammad commanded some his men to go to the place called Nakhlah, which is situated between Makkah and At-Ta ‘ if and asked them to lie in wait for Quraish and bring their news. When these Muslims on command of Muhammad reached Nakhlah, they found a caravan of Quraish, which passed from near by. [2] The Quraish men in that Caravan were Amr Ibn Al-Hadrami, Uthman Ibn Abdullah, and his brother Naufal, and Al-Hakam Ibn Kaisan. When the Muslims saw these Quraish with their Caravan, they decided to attack them in the Prohibited month, and one of Muslim named Waqid Ibn Abdullah shot Al-Hadrami. Uthman Ibn Abdullah and Al-Hakim were captured and Naufal was successful in escaping from Muslims.[3]

When Muhammad came to know that his followers have looted the Caravan in prohibited month and killed one of the Quraish, he denied to take anything from the Loot. On this Allah suddenly revealed a verse, which is Qur’an Ch 2 Verse 217, which reads:-

They ask you about the sacred month – about fighting therein. Say, “Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing.” And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever – for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.

One of the famous commentator of Qur’an, Ibn Jalalayan says on this verse:-

Thus the Prophet (s) sent forth the first of his raiding parties under the command of ‘Abd Allāh b. Jahsh. They fought against the idolaters and killed [‘Amr b. ‘Abd Allāh] Ibn al-Hadramī in [the sacred month of] Rajab, thinking that it was the last day of Jumādā II. The disbelievers reviled them for making fighting lawful in a sacred month, and so God revealed the following: They ask you about the sacred, the forbidden, month, and fighting in it (qitālin fīhi, ‘fighting in it’, is an inclusive substitution [for al-shahri l-harāmi, ‘the sacred month’]). Say, to them: ‘Fighting (qitālun is the subject) in it is a grave thing (kabīr, ‘grave’, is the predicate), that is, heinous in terms of sin; but to bar (saddun is the subject), people, from God’s way, His religion, and disbelief in Him, in God, and, to bar from, the Sacred Mosque, that is, Mecca, and to expel its people, the Prophet (s) and the believers, from it — that is graver (the predicate of the [last] subject), [that is] more heinous in terms of sin than fighting in it, in God’s sight; and sedition, your idolatry, is graver than, your, slaying’, in it. They, the disbelievers, will not cease to fight against you, O believers, until, so that, they turn you from your religion, to unbelief, if they are able; and whoever of you turns from his religion, and dies disbelieving — their, good, works have failed, that is, they are invalid, in this world and the Hereafter. Thus they will not count for anything and will not result in any reward. The specification of death as a condition is because if that person were to return to Islam [again], his original deeds would not be invalidated, and he will be rewarded for them, and he would not have to repeat them, [deeds] such as [performing] the Pilgrimage: al-Shāfi‘ī is of this opinion. Those are the inhabitants of the Fire, abiding therein. [Source]

Here we see how Allah justifies killing of Quraish in prohibited month by saying that Non-Believers were the first to bar the way of Allah and were the reason of Fitna, but when we look in to the historical context of the verse, we can clearly see that this verse was revealed only for Muhammad. As he denied to accept the booty, because his companions killed people of Quraish in prohibited month and the Jews and people of Quraish started opposing him and considering it as a bad omen. [4] So Muhammad took help of his lord, and made him justify killing of Al-Hadrami, so that he can take the 1/5 part of the war booty. ( As mentioned inQur’an Ch 8 Verse 1)

So we see the background of the fight and it cannot be said that Muslims fought a defensive fight, as we clearly see that Muslims were the first to attack, kill and loot the Caravan and people of Quraish. After this incident Ibn Ishaq says, that Messenger of Allah heard Abu Sufyan Ibn Harb was coming from Syria, with large Caravan of Quraish, containing their money and merchandise, accompanied by some thirty or forty men. The Messenger of Allah summoned the Muslims and said,

“This is caravan of Quraish which contains their money. Go out to attack it; perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” [5]

When Abu Sufyan came to know about Muhammad’s plan, he hired Damdam Ibn ‘Amr to go to Mecca to order Quraish to come out to save their property from Muhammad and his companions. In this context Ibn Kathir relates Bukhari narrating a hadith, Vol 5, Book 59, No 286, which reads:-

Abu Jahl addressed Sa`d saying, “I see you wandering about safely in Mecca inspite of the fact that you have given shelter to the people who have changed their religion (i.e. became Muslims) and have claimed that you will help them and support them. By Allah, if you were not in the company of Abu Safwan, you would not be able to go your family safely.” Sa`d, raising his voice, said to him, “By Allah, if you should stop me from doing this (i.e. performing Tawaf) I would certainly prevent you from something which is more valuable for you, that is, your passage through Medina.” On this, Umaiya said to him, “O Sa`d do not raise your voice before Abu−l−Hakam, the chief of the people of the Valley (of Mecca).” Sa`d said, “O Umaiya, stop that! By Allah, I have heard Allah’s Apostle predicting that the Muslim will kill you.” Umaiya asked, “In Mecca?” Sa`d said, “I do not know.” Umaiya was greatly scared by that news. When Umaiya returned to his family, he said to his wife, “O Um Safwan! Don’t you know what Sa`d told me? “She said, “What has he told you?” He replied, “He claims that Muhammad has informed them (i.e. companions that they will kill me. I asked him, ‘In Mecca?’ He replied, ‘I do not know.”Then Umaiya added, “By Allah, I will never go out of Mecca.” But when the day of (the Ghazwa of) Badr came, Abu Jahl called the people to war, saying, “Go and protect your caravan.” But Umaiya disliked to go out (of Mecca).

On other hand, Quraish answering the call of Damdam got ready to protect their property and money. On this occasion Quraish men said, “Do Muhammad and his companions think this is going to be like Caravan of Ibn Hardami.” All most every man of Quraish went to fight Muhammad and his companions for saving their property.

Conclusion:-

This was the background of Muhammad’s fight of Badr and according to the evidence we see above we can now say without the shadow of Doubt that this fight of Muhammad was not defensive, but was very offensive. He tried to loot the caravans of Quraish and in that process his companions even killed some Quraish men and looted their property. Quraish fought back to protect their property and that too when Muhammad again tried to to loot their caravan. In this case Quraish were defensive, not Muhammad.

Now this is sufficient evidence to prove that Muhammad was a Looter, a Thug, and we can also discard the claim that he led a peaceful and simple life. We will see his other battles in second part of this article.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

References:-

[1] Battles of the Prophet by Ibn Kathir. Page No – 1 to 3

[2] IBID, Page No- 4 to 5

[3] Muhammad The Messenger of Allah, by Muhammad Ridha, Page No – 207

[4] Battles of the Prophet by Ibn Kathir. Page No – 7

[5] Ibid, Page No – 12
 

guy-uninterrupted

Alfrescian
Loyal
6/21/2012

Muhammad in his entire life time undertook unlimited battles and fought some eight of them.[1] When we ask these things to an Islamic scholar that why the Prophet of Most Peaceful religion fought so many battles, their instant reply will be that these battles which Muhammad undertook and fought were all in self defense. Some Scholars even say that “not a single battle was offensive, or he (Muhammad) fought because Allah informed his messenger with the help of Archangel Gabriel that the Non-Believers were plotting and planning against him to kill him.”

But how can we trust these Scholars without going through the evidence of their claim. So in this article we will see that whether really Muhammad fought his battles in Self Defense or were offensive battles. Lets start with the Battle of Badr.

Battle of Badr

Background

This battle took place when Muhammad commanded some his men to go to the place called Nakhlah, which is situated between Makkah and At-Ta ‘ if and asked them to lie in wait for Quraish and bring their news. When these Muslims on command of Muhammad reached Nakhlah, they found a caravan of Quraish, which passed from near by. [2] The Quraish men in that Caravan were Amr Ibn Al-Hadrami, Uthman Ibn Abdullah, and his brother Naufal, and Al-Hakam Ibn Kaisan. When the Muslims saw these Quraish with their Caravan, they decided to attack them in the Prohibited month, and one of Muslim named Waqid Ibn Abdullah shot Al-Hadrami. Uthman Ibn Abdullah and Al-Hakim were captured and Naufal was successful in escaping from Muslims.[3]

When Muhammad came to know that his followers have looted the Caravan in prohibited month and killed one of the Quraish, he denied to take anything from the Loot. On this Allah suddenly revealed a verse, which is Qur’an Ch 2 Verse 217, which reads:-

They ask you about the sacred month – about fighting therein. Say, “Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah . And fitnah is greater than killing.” And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever – for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.

One of the famous commentator of Qur’an, Ibn Jalalayan says on this verse:-

Thus the Prophet (s) sent forth the first of his raiding parties under the command of ‘Abd Allāh b. Jahsh. They fought against the idolaters and killed [‘Amr b. ‘Abd Allāh] Ibn al-Hadramī in [the sacred month of] Rajab, thinking that it was the last day of Jumādā II. The disbelievers reviled them for making fighting lawful in a sacred month, and so God revealed the following: They ask you about the sacred, the forbidden, month, and fighting in it (qitālin fīhi, ‘fighting in it’, is an inclusive substitution [for al-shahri l-harāmi, ‘the sacred month’]). Say, to them: ‘Fighting (qitālun is the subject) in it is a grave thing (kabīr, ‘grave’, is the predicate), that is, heinous in terms of sin; but to bar (saddun is the subject), people, from God’s way, His religion, and disbelief in Him, in God, and, to bar from, the Sacred Mosque, that is, Mecca, and to expel its people, the Prophet (s) and the believers, from it — that is graver (the predicate of the [last] subject), [that is] more heinous in terms of sin than fighting in it, in God’s sight; and sedition, your idolatry, is graver than, your, slaying’, in it. They, the disbelievers, will not cease to fight against you, O believers, until, so that, they turn you from your religion, to unbelief, if they are able; and whoever of you turns from his religion, and dies disbelieving — their, good, works have failed, that is, they are invalid, in this world and the Hereafter. Thus they will not count for anything and will not result in any reward. The specification of death as a condition is because if that person were to return to Islam [again], his original deeds would not be invalidated, and he will be rewarded for them, and he would not have to repeat them, [deeds] such as [performing] the Pilgrimage: al-Shāfi‘ī is of this opinion. Those are the inhabitants of the Fire, abiding therein. [Source]

Here we see how Allah justifies killing of Quraish in prohibited month by saying that Non-Believers were the first to bar the way of Allah and were the reason of Fitna, but when we look in to the historical context of the verse, we can clearly see that this verse was revealed only for Muhammad. As he denied to accept the booty, because his companions killed people of Quraish in prohibited month and the Jews and people of Quraish started opposing him and considering it as a bad omen. [4] So Muhammad took help of his lord, and made him justify killing of Al-Hadrami, so that he can take the 1/5 part of the war booty. ( As mentioned inQur’an Ch 8 Verse 1)

So we see the background of the fight and it cannot be said that Muslims fought a defensive fight, as we clearly see that Muslims were the first to attack, kill and loot the Caravan and people of Quraish. After this incident Ibn Ishaq says, that Messenger of Allah heard Abu Sufyan Ibn Harb was coming from Syria, with large Caravan of Quraish, containing their money and merchandise, accompanied by some thirty or forty men. The Messenger of Allah summoned the Muslims and said,

“This is caravan of Quraish which contains their money. Go out to attack it; perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.” [5]

When Abu Sufyan came to know about Muhammad’s plan, he hired Damdam Ibn ‘Amr to go to Mecca to order Quraish to come out to save their property from Muhammad and his companions. In this context Ibn Kathir relates Bukhari narrating a hadith, Vol 5, Book 59, No 286, which reads:-

Abu Jahl addressed Sa`d saying, “I see you wandering about safely in Mecca inspite of the fact that you have given shelter to the people who have changed their religion (i.e. became Muslims) and have claimed that you will help them and support them. By Allah, if you were not in the company of Abu Safwan, you would not be able to go your family safely.” Sa`d, raising his voice, said to him, “By Allah, if you should stop me from doing this (i.e. performing Tawaf) I would certainly prevent you from something which is more valuable for you, that is, your passage through Medina.” On this, Umaiya said to him, “O Sa`d do not raise your voice before Abu−l−Hakam, the chief of the people of the Valley (of Mecca).” Sa`d said, “O Umaiya, stop that! By Allah, I have heard Allah’s Apostle predicting that the Muslim will kill you.” Umaiya asked, “In Mecca?” Sa`d said, “I do not know.” Umaiya was greatly scared by that news. When Umaiya returned to his family, he said to his wife, “O Um Safwan! Don’t you know what Sa`d told me? “She said, “What has he told you?” He replied, “He claims that Muhammad has informed them (i.e. companions that they will kill me. I asked him, ‘In Mecca?’ He replied, ‘I do not know.”Then Umaiya added, “By Allah, I will never go out of Mecca.” But when the day of (the Ghazwa of) Badr came, Abu Jahl called the people to war, saying, “Go and protect your caravan.” But Umaiya disliked to go out (of Mecca).

On other hand, Quraish answering the call of Damdam got ready to protect their property and money. On this occasion Quraish men said, “Do Muhammad and his companions think this is going to be like Caravan of Ibn Hardami.” All most every man of Quraish went to fight Muhammad and his companions for saving their property.

Conclusion:-

This was the background of Muhammad’s fight of Badr and according to the evidence we see above we can now say without the shadow of Doubt that this fight of Muhammad was not defensive, but was very offensive. He tried to loot the caravans of Quraish and in that process his companions even killed some Quraish men and looted their property. Quraish fought back to protect their property and that too when Muhammad again tried to to loot their caravan. In this case Quraish were defensive, not Muhammad.

Now this is sufficient evidence to prove that Muhammad was a Looter, a Thug, and we can also discard the claim that he led a peaceful and simple life. We will see his other battles in second part of this article.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

References:-

[1] Battles of the Prophet by Ibn Kathir. Page No – 1 to 3

[2] IBID, Page No- 4 to 5

[3] Muhammad The Messenger of Allah, by Muhammad Ridha, Page No – 207

[4] Battles of the Prophet by Ibn Kathir. Page No – 7

[5] Ibid, Page No – 12

Hi just to get a screenshot of what you claim and insinuated on our Prophet (peace be upon him)
Thanks
And confirm you are a member of Lighthouse Baptist Church in Singapopre?

Thanks again
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
Islam at least gave the people/land it conquered a choice of submission through assimilation to their religion or jigzya, pay us a sum of money and continue your own practice. Other religion at the time, Christianity never had the same choice. Convert or die!
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Islam at least gave the people/land it conquered a choice of submission through assimilation to their religion or jigzya, pay us a sum of money and continue your own practice. Other religion at the time, Christianity never had the same choice. Convert or die!

Jizya extends only to the people of the book, ie Christians and Jews. You mean you don't know? Thats why there are so many Muslims in India, Indonesi and Africa today. They are decendents of people who were forcibly converted.

Besides, jizya is suppose to be a punitive and humiliating tax. Its pay up or die or enslavement.
In other words, there is compulsion in religion.

As for forced conversions in Christianity, no such teachings.
 
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gymkhana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Lying again? Tsk Tsk. What a coward you are. Never heard of lighthouse church when you were so keen on inviting ppl to your healing sessions there?
By the way jizya, and since you are so keen on Wikipedia so lets see what it has to say about jizya shall we ? Or do you only choose those that suit your agenda?
Go figure;

From Wikipedia
Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية‎ ǧizyah IPA:*[dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye; both derived from Pahlavi and possibly from Aramaic gaziyat[1]) is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[2] (but with specific exemptions).[3][4] From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes."[5] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.[6][7][8]

The word jizya is derived from the root word that refers to “part”, hence taken from a part of the wealth of the non-Muslim citizens. In fact, the use of the word jizya was not even necessary. Al-Tabari wrote that some members of the Christian community asked the companion “Umar bin al-Khatab if they could refer to the jizya as sadaqah which literally means “charity”, which he approved of.[9]
 
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Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Gymkhana conveniently failed to post the following also from the same wiki page.



Sahih Bukhari
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 559 states that the King of Aila wrote to Muhammad that his people agreed to pay the jizya tax in return for being allowed to stay in their place.[20]

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386 states that Muhammad commanded Al-Mughira and his army to fight non-Muslims until they worshiped Allah alone or gave jizya.[27]

You see that? Pay up or get killed.
 

gymkhana

Alfrescian
Loyal
your very own quote has exposed you as a liar yet again..Your won quote never said kill but you anyhow whack and throw your own spanna in the works...countless of times you have twisted the words to suit your own aganda with you inane one liners and keep attacking Muslims and Buddhists for our beliefs.

instead of inviting ppl to the religion of Christianity which i think Deepblue has done in her excellent example of good character, you have driven people to abhor your faith.good thing we have better examples of Christians in our lives.

if you want to quote the Hadiths then quote everything why so sneaky ? Cowardice is your answer. snake is the your character.
lets see what wiki has in terms of the jizya

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 475 states 'Umar's concern for the well-being of dhimmis on his deathbed (after he was stabbed by a dhimmi). 'Umar commanded his would-be successor to "abide by the rules and regulations concerning the Dhimmis (protectees) of Allah and His Apostle, to fulfill their contracts completely and fight for them and not to tax (overburden) them beyond their capabilities".[18][19]
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 559 states that the King of Aila wrote to Muhammad that his people agreed to pay the jizya tax in return for being allowed to stay in their place.[20]
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425 states that Jesus will abolish the jizya, as does Volume 4, Book 55, Number 657.[21][22]
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 384 states that Umar did not take the jizya from the "Magian infidels" (Zoroastrians) until he heard testimony that Muhammad had taken the jizya from the Magians of Hajar.[23]
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 385 states that Muhammad collected jizya from the people of Bahrain, as do Volume 5, Book 59, Number 351 and Volume 8, Book 76, Number 433.[24][25][26]
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386 states that Muhammad commanded Al-Mughira and his army to fight non-Muslims until they worshiped Allah alone or gave jizya.[27]
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 404 has Muhammad stating that one day Allah will make the dhimmis "so daring that they will refuse to pay the Jizya they will be supposed to pay".[28]
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 49 reports that Muhammad said: "Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling)",[29]
 

always1600

Alfrescian
Loyal
Miss Kinana....vision of u again, I see u, I can foretell you.....your GOD wants me to tell u to shut up.....your knowledge in yr own blind faith is pushing your iq further down n your stupidity to higher ground which is near retardation. Don't go there....for there is hope for redemption....you cross the line.....aww.....i shall continue......
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 475 states 'Umar's concern for the well-being of dhimmis on his deathbed (after he was stabbed by a dhimmi). 'Umar commanded his would-be successor to "abide by the rules and regulations concerning the Dhimmis (protectees) of Allah and His Apostle, to fulfill their contracts completely and fight for them and not to tax (overburden) them beyond their capabilities".[18][19]
A mistranslation by Muslims. Here's the proper translation
http://www.luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari_Book23.html
I recommend my successor to be
good to the early emigrants and realize their rights and to protect their honour and sacred things. And I also
recommend him to be good to the Ansar who before them, had homes (in Medina) and had adopted the Faith.
It says from your Muslim site 'early emigrants and not dhimmis.

What a deception by Gymkhana.



Volume 2, Book 24, Number 559 states that the King of Aila wrote to Muhammad that his people agreed to pay the jizya tax in return for being allowed to stay in their place.[20]
There you go, pay up or else. Thats oppression under Islamic laws.


Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425 states that Jesus will abolish the jizya, as does Volume 4, Book 55, Number 657.[21][22]
Jesus is good. He will abolish the oppressive jizyah that your Muhamad imposed.


Volume 4, Book 53, Number 384 states that Umar did not take the jizya from the "Magian infidels" (Zoroastrians) until he heard testimony that Muhammad had taken the jizya from the Magians of Hajar.[23]
So both of Umar and Muhamad took jizyah from innocent non Muslims la.

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 386 states that Muhammad commanded Al-Mughira and his army to fight non-Muslims until they worshiped Allah alone or gave jizya.[27]
Again comfirming pay up or be killed.
There is compulsion in religion under Islam.


Volume 4, Book 53, Number 404 has Muhammad stating that one day Allah will make the dhimmis "so daring that they will refuse to pay the Jizya they will be supposed to pay".[28]
See, Allah wants non Muslims to pay this jizyah money.

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 49 reports that Muhammad said: "Whoever killed a Mu'ahid (a person who is granted the pledge of protection by the Muslims) shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise though its fragrance can be smelt at a distance of forty years (of traveling)",[29]
So Muhamad cursed the people who killed his source of jizyah.
 

Kinana

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thats just what your Hadiths talked about. No more twisting and turning please my Muslims fren.
Jizyah is an oppression against non Muslims.


 

Kinanna

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes that's right jizwaj is what it is said in hadiths ....tax on the general body of non Muslims to equate us in terms of protection and civil rights. Pls don't bullsjit us Christians any more. We are the greatest bullshitters already don't need any body to out do us !
Cheers
Ahahahaha.....
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
So you saying Christianity is a false religion?

Yes that's right jizwaj is what it is said in hadiths ....tax on the general body of non Muslims to equate us in terms of protection and civil rights. Pls don't bullsjit us Christians any more. We are the greatest bullshitters already don't need any body to out do us !
Cheers
Ahahahaha.....
 

always1600

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes that's right jizwaj is what it is said in hadiths ....tax on the general body of non Muslims to equate us in terms of protection and civil rights. Pls don't bullsjit us Christians any more. We are the greatest bullshitters already don't need any body to out do us !
Cheers
Ahahahaha.....

Miss Kinana....u r twisting facts n cause disharmony again.
But you level of retardation has improve abit when u realize Christian are the greatest bullshitters.
I sense your low iq needs to polish further. Good for u, keep it up!
 

Ash007

Alfrescian
Loyal
His aim has always been to cast religion in a bad light. He is an atheist at heart. :wink:

Miss Kinana....u r twisting facts n cause disharmony again.
But you level of retardation has improve abit when u realize Christian are the greatest bullshitters.
I sense your low iq needs to polish further. Good for u, keep it up!
 
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