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NS Liabilities for Kids Migrating

Satnaam

New Member
As long as there is a Canadian PR migrant visa stamp on his passport and you state or say that you have migrated for good, the bond will not apply.

There are staff on the phone and there are also an outsourced contact centre who are not familiar with migrating families and will insist about the bond. Write directly to CMPB and make it very clear that you have migrated.

Once the 13 birthday is nearing send an email to CMPB and the make it very clear that your family has migrated. Do note that they will not ask you for an undertaking but that you merely state that you are migrating for good and Canada is your new home.

Hi Scroobal

My son left Singapore just prior to his 13th birthday. He has not renewed his passport because the passport is valid for 10 years. However, applied for NRIC when we received the letter from MHA as we did not know that we could actually reject the request to apply for NRIC. We thought it would be an offence not to apply for NRIC.

My son duly registered for NS. He has just done the medical and would probably be called to enlist next year when he turns 18. He already has foreign citizenship. He is not keen to do NS as he has no intention to make Singapore his home in future. Is there any way for us to obtain disruption of NS until age 21?

Thanks.
 

vanad

Alfrescian
Loyal
With the new passports having a validity of only 5 years, it is almost inevitable having to renew the passport. Unless, one had already started the process of migration before getting the passport for the little boy.

And the baby bonus scheme. Will it be a "benefit" that saddle the little boy with the liabilities? Not asking anyone, but just sadly thinking...
 

Conqueror

Alfrescian
Loyal
What About Marrying Abroad ?

Free_Birds_by_ByLaauraa.jpg



Is there a difference when you marry a foreigner in Sinkiesland or another country ? Will these fascists have problem trying to drag your boy boy back to do NS ? Do you need to surrender your passport and 'citizenship' before the birth of a boy ?
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Unfortunately no. They are unlikely to give disruption and if they have given disruption until 21 they will not allow the citizenship to be renouced until he completes NS. As you correctly pointed out, it is the possession of NRIC and thus deemed to have enjoyed the privileges of citizenship. NRIC and passport renewal is the most common trip points for those who are young and applied for foreign citizenship.
Hi ScroobalMy son left Singapore just prior to his 13th birthday. He has not renewed his passport because the passport is valid for 10 years. However, applied for NRIC when we received the letter from MHA as we did not know that we could actually reject the request to apply for NRIC. We thought it would be an offence not to apply for NRIC. My son duly registered for NS. He has just done the medical and would probably be called to enlist next year when he turns 18. He already has foreign citizenship. He is not keen to do NS as he has no intention to make Singapore his home in future. Is there any way for us to obtain disruption of NS until age 21?Thanks.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
It actually not very hard and more a mindset thing. I know of families whose sons have stayed away from travel after expiry of passport until they acquired foreign citizenship and passport. Also many foreign govt including OZ, Canadian, US, UK etc who provide certificate of travel for PR in the event that they do not have a valid passport and need to travel for family emergencies. I once had a desperate father calling me who was fighting his wife about renewing the passports of 2 sons because she wanted the sons' to attend the wedding jubilee of her parents in Singapore. I blasted the woman. She could not work out that for a stupid jubilee, she wants to commit her sons to NS for 2 years each when they already began life in their new country and no longer Singaporeans except on paper.
With the new passports having a validity of only 5 years, it is almost inevitable having to renew the passport. Unless, one had already started the process of migration before getting the passport for the little boy. And the baby bonus scheme. Will it be a "benefit" that saddle the little boy with the liabilities? Not asking anyone, but just sadly thinking...
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: Born Free Is The Best

It does not work like that in Singapore. These procedures are not transparent. Primarily designed so that NS evasion is minimised. Unfortunately genuine emigrants are impacted.
people who love to migrating to singapore must know about the migration law and procedure
 

xenomorph

Alfrescian
Loyal
losers in sinkland still lose out after migration.

i asked my friend to join the gay association.
fake tattoos and nose rings and photos of him occupy sydney.
see if mindef still dare to call him for ns.
2 years of shitty life bec of loser parents.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Can't blame the parents as the procedures are not disclosed. There is a couple from Bukit Timah who migrated Before they had children. They now have 2 daughters who are adults and one son who is 16 yrs old. When the son was born overseas, they applied for Singapore citizenship and got it. He is now liable for NS despite having been raised overseas. It's one of those things where Asians tend to want security without realising the consequences.
losers in sinkland still lose out after migration. i asked my friend to join the gay association.fake tattoos and nose rings and photos of him occupy sydney.see if mindef still dare to call him for ns.2 years of shitty life bec of loser parents.
 

xenomorph

Alfrescian
Loyal
will this court case set new precedence for future cases huh?


The Immigration & Checkpoint Authority (ICA) has rejected the application of Zhang Junyi to denounce his Singapore citizenship, citing that he is not yet a legal adult. In addition, the ICA also reminded Zhang of his National Service obligation when he becomes 18 year-old. In response, Zhang sought a judicial review on ICA's decision.

Zhang Junyi filed his request to the Supreme Court through his father Zhang Shaowei. Zhang Junyi was represented by lawyer Lee Jing Xiong who asked the Supreme Court to review the decision of the ICA and the Ministry of Defence on Zhang Junyi's case.

Zhang Junyi urged the Court to rule that he is eligible to renounce his Singapore citizenship, he doesn't qualify for national service, and that his notice to the ICA last year which declared his intention to renounce citizenship is valid.

Zhang Junyi is due for National Service registration soon. He is currently on an exit permit which cleared him for overseas studies. The exit permit will expire on 30 December 2011. The law requires males eligible for National Service to register with the Ministry of Defence when they turn 16.5 years old.

Zhang Junyi's parents Zhang Shaowei and Liang Jiali emigrated to Singapore in January 1996. They converted to Singapore citizenship, along with Zhang Junyi's 2 elder sisters. 2 months after gaining citizenship, they moved to Hongkong.

Zhang Junyi was borned in Hongkong 3 months after his family moved there. Subsequently, Zhang Junyi was granted Singapore citizenship the following Febraury. He lived in Hongkong until he returned to Singapore in 2005 at the age of 10 to study.

In August 2010, Zhang Junyi applied to Hongkong Department of Immigration to restore his Chinese citizenship. Although the Department accepted his application, it was conditional that he relinquishes his Singapore citizenship. 4 months later, Zhang Junyi notified the ICA of his intention to renouce his Singapore citizenship.

However. the ICA rejected his application, citing Section 1, Article 128 of the Singapore Constitution that a citizen can only give up his citizenship when he is above 21 years old and that parents may not make such a decision for the child. The ICA also added that according to Section 2, Article 128 of the Singapore Constitution, Zhang Junyi is obligated to complete his National Service as long as he remains a Singapore citizen.

The Central Manpower Base (CPMB) also suggested that Zhang Junyi should postpone his application for change of citizenship until he has turned 21 years old and that he has completed his National Service. CMPB will consider his application.



In response, Zhang Junyi described the constitutional interpretation of the ICA and the CMPB as "illogical and unfair", citing 3 points.

Firstly, the Singapore citizenship was imposed on him because his parents emigrated to Singapore.

Secondly, he is not a 100% citizen because he will only be accorded with full citizenship rights as soon as he relinquished other citizenships within a year after he turned 21 years old. As such, the aforementioned constitutional provisions are irrelevant.

Thirdly, the Enlistment Act does not apply on him because he was less than 16 years old when he first declared his intention to ICA to renounce his Singapore citizenship.



The Attorney General's Chamber (AGC) was notified of the application for judicial review in the middle of November by Zhang Junyi's lawyer Mr Lee Jing Xiong. The pre-conference trial starts today.



Expert: "Interesting" Judicial Review

Constitutional law expert Dr Kevin Tan told Zaobao this would be an "interesting" judicial review. He also pointed out that the Courts rarely take on cases which involve citizenship rights because very few people would submit such issues to the Courts.

He also added that Zhang Junyi may not succeed in securing a judicial review because both the ICA and the CMPB did not act wilfully or irregularly, and as well as exceed their jurisdictions.

Dr Kevin Tan said that Article 128 of the Singapore Constitution appears absolute and that only Singaporeans above the age of 21 are eligible to renounce their citizenship.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
will this court case set new precedence for future cases huh?


The Immigration & Checkpoint Authority (ICA) has rejected the application of Zhang Junyi to denounce his Singapore citizenship, citing that he is not yet a legal adult. In addition, the ICA also reminded Zhang of his National Service obligation when he becomes 18 year-old. In response, Zhang sought a judicial review on ICA's decision.

Zhang Junyi filed his request to the Supreme Court through his father Zhang Shaowei. Zhang Junyi was represented by lawyer Lee Jing Xiong who asked the Supreme Court to review the decision of the ICA and the Ministry of Defence on Zhang Junyi's case.

Zhang Junyi urged the Court to rule that he is eligible to renounce his Singapore citizenship, he doesn't qualify for national service, and that his notice to the ICA last year which declared his intention to renounce citizenship is valid.

Zhang Junyi is due for National Service registration soon. He is currently on an exit permit which cleared him for overseas studies. The exit permit will expire on 30 December 2011. The law requires males eligible for National Service to register with the Ministry of Defence when they turn 16.5 years old.

Zhang Junyi's parents Zhang Shaowei and Liang Jiali emigrated to Singapore in January 1996. They converted to Singapore citizenship, along with Zhang Junyi's 2 elder sisters. 2 months after gaining citizenship, they moved to Hongkong.

Zhang Junyi was borned in Hongkong 3 months after his family moved there. Subsequently, Zhang Junyi was granted Singapore citizenship the following Febraury. He lived in Hongkong until he returned to Singapore in 2005 at the age of 10 to study.

In August 2010, Zhang Junyi applied to Hongkong Department of Immigration to restore his Chinese citizenship. Although the Department accepted his application, it was conditional that he relinquishes his Singapore citizenship. 4 months later, Zhang Junyi notified the ICA of his intention to renouce his Singapore citizenship.

However. the ICA rejected his application, citing Section 1, Article 128 of the Singapore Constitution that a citizen can only give up his citizenship when he is above 21 years old and that parents may not make such a decision for the child. The ICA also added that according to Section 2, Article 128 of the Singapore Constitution, Zhang Junyi is obligated to complete his National Service as long as he remains a Singapore citizen.

The Central Manpower Base (CPMB) also suggested that Zhang Junyi should postpone his application for change of citizenship until he has turned 21 years old and that he has completed his National Service. CMPB will consider his application.



In response, Zhang Junyi described the constitutional interpretation of the ICA and the CMPB as "illogical and unfair", citing 3 points.

Firstly, the Singapore citizenship was imposed on him because his parents emigrated to Singapore.

Secondly, he is not a 100% citizen because he will only be accorded with full citizenship rights as soon as he relinquished other citizenships within a year after he turned 21 years old. As such, the aforementioned constitutional provisions are irrelevant.

Thirdly, the Enlistment Act does not apply on him because he was less than 16 years old when he first declared his intention to ICA to renounce his Singapore citizenship.



The Attorney General's Chamber (AGC) was notified of the application for judicial review in the middle of November by Zhang Junyi's lawyer Mr Lee Jing Xiong. The pre-conference trial starts today.



Expert: "Interesting" Judicial Review

Constitutional law expert Dr Kevin Tan told Zaobao this would be an "interesting" judicial review. He also pointed out that the Courts rarely take on cases which involve citizenship rights because very few people would submit such issues to the Courts.

He also added that Zhang Junyi may not succeed in securing a judicial review because both the ICA and the CMPB did not act wilfully or irregularly, and as well as exceed their jurisdictions.

Dr Kevin Tan said that Article 128 of the Singapore Constitution appears absolute and that only Singaporeans above the age of 21 are eligible to renounce their citizenship.

If you read the article above, Zhang Junyi came to Singapore in 2005 at the age of 10 and studied in Singapore for 5 years (till he was 15) before he decided he applied to restore his China citizenship in 2010. One can imagine he held a Singapore passport, a Singapore identification card and number, enjoyed benefits of being educated in the Singapore education system (PSLE) and maybe even O levels at the very least. That is a clear argument that he enjoyed social and political benefits of being a Singapore citizen after the age of 11.

It is consistent with what scroobal had been stating here in this thread. If you enjoy benefits past the age of 11, hold a Singapore IC then you have to serve NS. Serve the NS then renounce. It's pretty much like serving a sentence for the "crime".

Having said that it appears that the lawyers have picked up on certain points in the Constitution to argue the case which will be interesting.

Does Singapore consider a Singapore citizen a full citizen if he is below the age of 21 and has another citizenship that he has not relinquished ?

Is there any case for point 3 where the Enlistment Act does not apply if the person informs ICA of their intention to renounce citizenship before the age of 16?

I do hope the lawyers know what they are doing and not merely highlighting loopholes that will be further tightened.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Over the years parents have been engaging lawyers including top silks to find a loophole. Representations have been made to various Govt bodies including PMO.

Either the parents have lots of money and have demanded all the way to the top or this lawyer really feels that he struck lottery with his client or with his interpretation of the law.

Kelvin Tan is Singapore's current constitutional expert and he himself has stated that that law as it is written is "absolute".
Having said that it appears that the lawyers have picked up on certain points in the Constitution to argue the case which will be interesting.

Does Singapore consider a Singapore citizen a full citizen if he is below the age of 21 and has another citizenship that he has not relinquished ?

Is there any case for point 3 where the Enlistment Act does not apply if the person informs ICA of their intention to renounce citizenship before the age of 16?

I do hope the lawyers know what they are doing and not merely highlighting loopholes that will be further tightened.
 
Last edited:

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
First is yes to full citizen even if one has another country's citizenship. Some countries make it clear that when a person who has dual citizenship, no consular services will be provided if that person is arrested by the other country where he holds citizenship as well. This purely to avoid wasting costs and time such as access to free lawyers etc. But you still enjoy full citizenship rights.

Indicating that your kid is likely to remain a citizen of his new country after 21 and therefore likely to renounce his citizenship is allow the deferment to be processed with a proper reason. Those who fail to do so are treated as absconders and unlikely to allowed into Singapore on social visits or on employment , business but they will not be prosecuted. 16 1/2 is toll gate to make that known. This applies to those who left early and not when they are reaching 16.




Does Singapore consider a Singapore citizen a full citizen if he is below the age of 21 and has another citizenship that he has not relinquished ?

Is there any case for point 3 where the Enlistment Act does not apply if the person informs ICA of their intention to renounce citizenship before the age of 16?

I do hope the lawyers know what they are doing and not merely highlighting loopholes that will be further tightened.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
First is yes to full citizen even if one has another country's citizenship. Some countries make it clear that when a person who has dual citizenship, no consular services will be provided if that person is arrested by the other country where he holds citizenship as well. This purely to avoid wasting costs and time such as access to free lawyers etc. But you still enjoy full citizenship rights.

Indicating that your kid is likely to remain a citizen of his new country after 21 and therefore likely to renounce his citizenship is allow the deferment to be processed with a proper reason. Those who fail to do so are treated as absconders and unlikely to allowed into Singapore on social visits or on employment , business but they will not be prosecuted. 16 1/2 is toll gate to make that known. This applies to those who left early and not when they are reaching 16.

Is the 13 year old mark something written in the rules or just arbitrary?
 

Azysha

New Member
Hello!

I have an issue if someone can shed some light/advice/guidance!

My husband left Singapore for Australia before the age of 11 to migrate with his father. His parents divorced and the father decided to take both kids to Australia where his side of the family lived.
Shortly after, my father in law applied for Australian Citizenship for himself and his son (husband). During the time my husband never step foot in Singapore, nor has the father made an effort to register him for NS or thought about he may later want to go back visit his mother & relatives. Selfish & Irresponsible I shall add, but I guess that's what you get when you remarry and you don't raise your own child, because he lives with his grandma.

I am from Singapore myself and my brother was in a similar situation but my father registered him for NS at age of 16 and because he was studying was excused from his NS responsibility. When he reached 21 he renounced his citizenship and just a last months he finally step foot in Singapore with his Australian Passport after 15 years!

I dream to go back to Singapore for a amily holiday and he can see his mom & her side of the family.
We want to renounce my husband citizenship, but just scared of any fines or hurdles we may encounter.

Can you please provide advice?
I did sent a generic email to CMPB but was scared when they asked for his 'data' so they can assess the situation.
Was scared they will come to Australia and arrest him haha ...

Thanks!
 

The_Hypocrite

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Blame the parents for being dumb to register the son for Singapore Citizenship..must be those typical Kia su, kia see, kia bor kind of Sinkies...I wont do that if my kids are born overseas....
 

Conqueror

Alfrescian
Loyal
I Second That

Blame the parents for being dumb to register the son for Singapore Citizenship..must be those typical Kia su, kia see, kia bor kind of Sinkies...I wont do that if my kids are born overseas....


Yah, I second that. I don't see the 'advantage' of getting into a bondage when your citizenship is as fake as PRC's - no democracy. Just let the old folks rot and die. If they want PAP, let them pick up rifles and stand guard at the posts.
 

The_Hypocrite

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: I Second That

Yah, I second that. I don't see the 'advantage' of getting into a bondage when your citizenship is as fake as PRC's - no democracy. Just let the old folks rot and die. If they want PAP, let them pick up rifles and stand guard at the posts.

These Sinkie parents want their kids to have dual citizenship so that they can go to spore if things turn wrong in their host countries,,,but is being a sinkie means being better off?? Such clowns should not even be allowed to breed
 

The_Hypocrite

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The idea is have your cake and eat it. If done properly the whole world is yours access wise. Which means freedom. You can connect flights thru Singapore. Let me give you some examples.

1) IBM chap working in OZ could not travel to Singapore Regional Training Centre for training. Though he left when he was 2 years old, family did not follow procedures. Now classified deserter.

2) Ex- Singaporean promoted to regional post for an American MNC. Unable to take up AP posts, Company intervened via lawyers no hope. This chap was not even born here but family applied for Singapore citizenship by descent.

3) Sikh family holds large wedding at Port Dickson resort as 2 of the family members did not follow procedure. JB too tacky for wedding. Family did not want to say that they cannot hold wedding in Singapore.

On the other hand, the ones who followed procedures, no issues. Some are working here holding high position. Only caveat is to hold the employment pass and not get itchy backside and get a PR. A singapore PR passholder who is born a Singaporean or previously held a SIngapore PR automatically has to do NS even is he has previously followed procedure and renounced his citizenship. There is an age cap for this. I think it is 28 or something.

One major issue is that someone who does not follow the procedure can never ever renounce his Singapore citizenship and will continue to be classified a deserter even if he does not want to return or visit Singapore. He makes a false declaration anywhere in the world when he declares that he is only holding one citizenship. Some of you will recall the chap in Canada who wrote to SDP his long letter on this very issue.

I feel that 'Desertion' laws need to be more strict and tightly enforced. I have encountered children of PRs getting all the benefits, when they turn 18, they leave the country and come back as FTs..the PAP is lying when they say such likes will not get EPs etc..its all bull shit. such deserters should be thrown into Detention and fined at least 100K...

Desertion laws should be enhanced and be strictly enforced..I do not want a Melvin Tan (pommie piano player) incident again. Never serve NS, deserter , got fine a few K and can come back...and still want to play at the Durian...
 
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