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Singaporeans chose to sue in US due to a lack of confidence in Sg Courts

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
The structured deposit issue comes back to life. The wealthy investors of the Pinacle Notes obviously do not have much confidence in the Singapore courts. They have therefore opted to sue in the US rather than Sg. An interesting case to watch, especially if the US courts rule in favour of Pinacle Notes investors.


Morgan Stanley sued over alleged CDO fraud

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69O5BO20101025

(Reuters) - Morgan Stanley was sued by a group of Singapore investors that accused it of rigging a bond sale related to collateralized debt obligations in order to wipe out their $154.7 million investment.

In a complaint filed in Manhattan federal court, the 18 investors said they invested in notes issued by Pinnacle Performance Ltd, a Cayman Islands-registered entity, that Morgan Stanley had marketed as "conservative," with an eye to protecting the investors' principal.

But they said Morgan Stanley instead invested their funds into synthetic CDOs of their own making, where the bank itself was counterparty on underlying swap agreements. The investors said this arrangement was structured to let Morgan Stanley gain one dollar for each dollar they lost.

"Morgan Stanley designed the synthetic CDOs to fail," the 119-page complaint said.

"It placed itself on the side guaranteed to win (the "short" side) and placed plaintiffs and the class on the side guaranteed to lose (the "long" side)," it went on. "(It) boils down to a classic bait-and-switch scheme."

Morgan Stanley spokesman Mark Lake declined to comment.

The lawsuit is the latest challenging banks' creation and marketing of CDOs, following the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission's lawsuit in April accusing Goldman Sachs Group Inc of structuring a CDO known as Abacus to benefit hedge fund investor John Paulson at the expense of other investors.

Goldman in July agreed to pay $550 million to settle that lawsuit, without admitting wrongdoing.

On Friday, a separate group of investors sued Credit Agricole SA in a New York state court. They accused the French bank of allowing a hedge fund to select poor assets to back two CDOs in which they invested, and did not disclose that the hedge fund was taking short positions.

The Morgan Stanley lawsuit seeks class-action status, actual and punitive damages, and other remedies.

The case is Dandong et al v. Pinnacle Performance Ltd et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 10-08086.

(Reporting by Jonathan Stempel in New York; Editing by Phil Berlowitz)
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
In Singapore, I was informed by a victim that Fidrec only come up with a compensation of 20% MINUS the interests given out to the victims. Well these are small time investors. There is no justice for poorer people. The rich ones could launch class action case against financial institutions in US while the poorer ones just suffer injustice here.

In US, you are allowed to carry out class action lawsuit but in Singapore, even if you have 100 victims with similar cases, they will have to put up with their own individual suit which is very expensive in total.

Goh Meng Seng
 

hochiminhcity

Alfrescian
Loyal
Interesting, why is class action lawsuit not allowed in singapore.
Can we sue CPf life for forcing us to buy insurance.
Which law firm or QC will dare to take the challenge........:mad:
 

busdriver111

Alfrescian
Loyal
<<<In US, you are allowed to carry out class action lawsuit but in Singapore, even if you have 100 victims with similar cases, they will have to put up with their own individual suit which is very expensive in total.>>>

You are not entirely correct. "Class action" suits do exist in Singapore. This is known as joinder of parties, and is allowed under order 15 of the rules of court.
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
In Singapore, I was informed by a victim that Fidrec only come up with a compensation of 20% MINUS the interests given out to the victims. Well these are small time investors. There is no justice for poorer people. The rich ones could launch class action case against financial institutions in US while the poorer ones just suffer injustice here.

In US, you are allowed to carry out class action lawsuit but in Singapore, even if you have 100 victims with similar cases, they will have to put up with their own individual suit which is very expensive in total.

Goh Meng Seng

You just have to ask yourself, if you buy the Pinnacle notes, do you have the financial means to go all the way with a class action lawsuit. If you get the compensation, will it be enough to offset all the monies spent? :wink:
 

byleftcan

Alfrescian
Loyal
In Singapore, I was informed by a victim that Fidrec only come up with a compensation of 20% MINUS the interests given out to the victims. Well these are small time investors. There is no justice for poorer people. The rich ones could launch class action case against financial institutions in US while the poorer ones just suffer injustice here.

In US, you are allowed to carry out class action lawsuit but in Singapore, even if you have 100 victims with similar cases, they will have to put up with their own individual suit which is very expensive in total.

Goh Meng Seng

Compensation varies but mostly less than 40-50%. They would give more if one can show he was duped (who wasn't duped in the first place). Those who get 20% and less are those who didn't bother to contest hard enough compared to those who got more.
 

johnny333

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You just have to ask yourself, if you buy the Pinnacle notes, do you have the financial means to go all the way with a class action lawsuit. If you get the compensation, will it be enough to offset all the monies spent? :wink:

In the US there are lawyers who will accept a contigency fee for a class action suits involving millions to billions :rolleyes:
 

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
Compensation varies but mostly less than 40-50%. They would give more if one can show he was duped (who wasn't duped in the first place). Those who get 20% and less are those who didn't bother to contest hard enough compared to those who got more.

DBS is supposed to be the national bank of Singapore.

In Singapore, DBS compensated victims between 20% to 40%.

In Hong Kong, DBS compensated victims in full.

Maybe this what PAP MPs mean by "looking after" their ward.


DBS Hong Kong to pay $84 mln in Lehman settlement

July 14 (Reuters) - DBS Hong Kong, a unit of Singapore's DBS Group Holdings (DBSM.SI), will pay out a combined HK$651 million ($84 million) to some buyers of Lehman Brothers constellation notes, the territory's financial regulator said on Wednesday.

Customers classified by the bank as having a low to medium risk profile would receive their money returned plus interest that would have been payable had it been placed in a fixed-term deposit, Hong Kong's Securities and Futures Commission said in a statement.

Investors in Singapore, Hong Kong and Indonesia who bought the product had lost their money after the U.S. investment bank Lehman Brothers went under in 2008.

The constellation notes are credit-linked notes related to the collapsed U.S. bank. (Reporting by Kelvin Soh; Editing by Chris Lewis)
 

Goh Meng Seng

Alfrescian (InfP) [Comp]
Generous Asset
DBS is supposed to be the national bank of Singapore.

In Singapore, DBS compensated victims between 20% to 40%.

In Hong Kong, DBS compensated victims in full.

Maybe this what PAP MPs mean by "looking after" their ward.

That is the power of democracy. The Democrats in the Legco fought very hard in the hearing of this minibond saga. Up to the point that no bank CEOs or owners want to attend, fearful of being slammed in public media.

In Singapore, no MP in parliament has fought for the Minibond victims.

Goh Meng Seng
 

silverfox@

Alfrescian
Loyal
In the US there are lawyers who will accept a contigency fee for a class action suits involving millions to billions :rolleyes:

If you are a lawyer, you may accept a contingency fee, but you have to see whether the local lawyers are willing to do so.

So now the onus is on the lawyers here .
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If you are a lawyer, you may accept a contingency fee, but you have to see whether the local lawyers are willing to do so.

So now the onus is on the lawyers here .

Singapore lawyers aren't allowed to accept contingency fees.
 

longbow

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Loyal
In Singapore, you sue and lose you pay all legal fees including Morgan stanley's top notch lawyer.

US - just pay your own lawyers; which can be a contingency fee
 

Ramseth

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In Singapore, you sue and lose you pay all legal fees including Morgan stanley's top notch lawyer.

US - just pay your own lawyers; which can be a contingency fee

US contingency fee works this way. Your lawyer will bill you miscellaneous disbursements only, e.g. court fees, document fees, courier fees etc. but not his legal fees. If he loses the case, that's all he gets. If he wins the case, he gets one-third of whatever money awarded. That's contingency fee. Therefore, it works only in cases involving monetary claims, e.g. injury, defamation, commercial disputes, conveyancing disputes etc.

Advantages are, it allows poorer folks to sue richer folks and even big corporations without having to come up with large upfront retainer fees, and the lawyer accesses and advises on the case on merit of chances of winning because he doesn't earn anything and waste his time if he loses.

However, this is disallowed in Singapore where lawyers aren't supposed to take a share of whatever monetary award he won for his client. He must charge his professional rates or offer pro bono. The disadvantage cited by Singapore is usually this practice promotes a litigious society.
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
That is the power of democracy. The Democrats in the Legco fought very hard in the hearing of this minibond saga. Up to the point that no bank CEOs or owners want to attend, fearful of being slammed in public media.

In Singapore, no MP in parliament has fought for the Minibond victims.

Goh Meng Seng

Please lah. The minibond so called victims didn't complain when they collected their big fat dividends. Want upside, don't want downside. Which part of "Risk attracts an appropriate return" do they not understand?
 

aurvandil

Alfrescian
Loyal
Please lah. The minibond so called victims didn't complain when they collected their big fat dividends. Want upside, don't want downside. Which part of "Risk attracts an appropriate return" do they not understand?

Why is the DBS HK settlement so much more generous than the DBS SG settlement?
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
Why is the DBS HK settlement so much more generous than the DBS SG settlement?

That fact alone does not lead to a conclusion. Many possibilities

1 maybe HK had a smaller base since DBS is not a major player ther.e

2 maybe HK laws are stricter and DBS failed to observe them

3 conversely to 2, maybe Singapore laws were stricter but because they were stricter, the public were protected in the first place.

The above is all speculation. But all I am saying is that the conclusion you want us to draw isn't necessarily the right conclusion.
 
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